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Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby DMRyan on Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:48 pm

Aviva's new US HQ has acheived LEED Gold Certification.

From the DSM Business Record:
Aviva USA headquarters attains LEED Gold status

Aviva USA announced today that its new West Des Moines headquarters has been certified as a Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) Gold building by the U.S. Green Building Council.

The eight-story, 360,000-square-foot structure is the largest LEED Gold certified building in Iowa and one of only five its size or larger in the United States to achieve that designation, according to the U.S. Green Building Council. Aviva's project is the 24th LEED Gold building in the state and the fourth in Greater Des Moines.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby rasmeth on Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:29 pm

LEED should take into consideration how a building is sited and how it makes its employees get to the building. If it is located to bring people in by car, mass transit, foot, or bike, and how far it makes them go by car or bike to get there. Other than this big oversight that makes certification less reputable, it is an honor to have a building here that meets so many of the other technical requirements for sustainability.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby dogbo on Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:38 pm

rasmeth wrote:LEED should take into consideration how a building is sited and how it makes its employees get to the building. If it is located to bring people in by car, mass transit, foot, or bike, and how far it makes them go by car or bike to get there. Other than this big oversight that makes certification less reputable, it is an honor to have a building here that meets so many of the other technical requirements for sustainability.


I agree.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby Philby on Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:49 pm

rasmeth wrote:LEED should take into consideration how a building is sited and how it makes its employees get to the building. If it is located to bring people in by car, mass transit, foot, or bike, and how far it makes them go by car or bike to get there. Other than this big oversight that makes certification less reputable, it is an honor to have a building here that meets so many of the other technical requirements for sustainability.


I think there should be something in there related to mass transit (IE on bus route, within X distance from terminal, etc) but how an employee chooses to get to work is the decision of each employee and I don't think the employer should be held responsible. If you have two employee's living next to each other a mile away from the building and one bikes and one drives, how do you score that?

Also how would you measure how far a building "makes" someone go to get there. If they have an employee in Ames, does that mean locating their building in WDM should dock them points because they "make" an employee travel 30+ miles to get to work?

I like the spirit of your idea, and agree that there should be criteria in LEED related to accessability if there isn't already, but some things are just out of the company's control.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby Mastermind on Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:02 pm

There is all this "stuff" in there. Including whether they offer showers to people who bike to work, how many hybrid/Electric vehicle spaces, subsidized mass transit, etc.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby rasmeth on Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:29 am

You can't dock a company based on employee choices, but at least the location and some other factors have to have relevance. I truly don't believe the certification can have validity if the building is on a greenfield site, be surrounded on half its sides by farmland, and is completely outside of or on the very edge of the population base of the area. Maybe a bronze tier would be justified.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby Mastermind on Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:26 am

rasmeth wrote:You can't dock a company based on employee choices, but at least the location and some other factors have to have relevance. I truly don't believe the certification can have validity if the building is on a greenfield site, be surrounded on half its sides by farmland, and is completely outside of or on the very edge of the population base of the area. Maybe a bronze tier would be justified.

Sounds to me, you want to dock them because of location? Would you be saying this if it was built on an empty lot downtown? It seems to me this is another case of someone pissed off at building in the suburbs. If this was built on a former brownfield, it would get points for that. LEED isnt simply about reusing brownfields.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby dogbo on Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:20 pm

Mastermind wrote:
rasmeth wrote:You can't dock a company based on employee choices, but at least the location and some other factors have to have relevance. I truly don't believe the certification can have validity if the building is on a greenfield site, be surrounded on half its sides by farmland, and is completely outside of or on the very edge of the population base of the area. Maybe a bronze tier would be justified.

Sounds to me, you want to dock them because of location? Would you be saying this if it was built on an empty lot downtown? It seems to me this is another case of someone pissed off at building in the suburbs. If this was built on a former brownfield, it would get points for that. LEED isnt simply about reusing brownfields.


I believe you're missing his point. A downtown location means it is located at the hub of bus system meaning mass transit is fully utilized (or at least as much as you can for DSM). It also uses a lot less land. The current location of the building puts it so far off the street, employees that used to walk to lunch or other services when located downtown, now most likely must drive. Finally, by locating on the fringes of the western metro, it encourages more sprawl.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby Mastermind on Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:34 pm

Would it be better, and improve their score? Absolutely, but to dismiss their rating because they are in a suburb is sour grapes.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby butters on Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:12 pm

Not to toot my own horn here..But I am a LEED accredited professional. I'll try to shine some light on the situation here.

The LEED rating system does take in to account most criteria that has been brought up in the last 6 posts or so. The LEED Rating System this bulding certified under covers 6 areas of design - Site selection is one of these six. So - LEED awards points for buildings that are located in close proximity to mass transit facilties. LEED awards points for buildings that are located in more densely developed urban environments. LEED does award points for brownfield redevelopment and so on.

But what some of you are hinting on is that the LEED system sometimes misses the mark, and I agree. Most LEED criteria are not weighted relative to other criteria. For instance, a company that spends millions redeveloping a former brownfield site (a site that requires much environmetal remediation) receives one point. They can also receive one point for hanging up a couple of signs in the parking lot reserving parking space for low emitting vehicles. I think any logical person will agree that redeveloping a brownfield site should earn far more points than hanging up a couple of signs. Most LEED credits are this way - you meet a certain criteria and you earn 1 point.

Where this issue of weighting (meet the prescribed criteria, get one point) is different is the energy and atmosphere area of design - A disproportionate number of points can be earned in this one area of design. And multiple points can be earned by reaching certain benchmarks of efficiency. For instance, a building can earn 11 points by meeting the highest threshold of energy efficiency. So in essence, buildings that are very energy efficient are earning a heck of alot of points while a brownfield redevelopment or a building situated closely to mass transit facitlies only earns one point.

LEED has released newer versions of the LEED rating system, but this weighting issue still remains (in fact, the effect is exaccerbated in the newer systems).
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby rasmeth on Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:20 am

Thank you for explaining the points system, Butters! My negativity about the location is really because it sets a bad example by saying you can build a new building on the edge of the countryside not well connected to most of the population and so on while there's much fuel and energy wasted with the way people are getting there that really counteracts the positive things they've done. In addition, it does also personally go against what I would like as an ideal as for the company making downtown even better, but it's not just about what I want it's about LEED's point system being inaccurate.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby Mastermind on Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:22 am

To be fair, dont half of the employees at most of these large companies in the metro live in the west and northwestern burbs??
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby dogbo on Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:58 am

Mastermind wrote:To be fair, dont half of the employees at most of these large companies in the metro live in the west and northwestern burbs??


Does the distance of few miles matter if one option essentially requires individual automotive transportation for most employees' commutes (and also errands/lunch/etc) while the other allows for much greater access to mass transit (or walking)? Also, how many fewer people have the option to bike or walk to work (compared to a downtown location)? Finally, how many decades does it slow down the option of commuter rail options in Des Moines when major employers are spread all over the metro (as opposed to centrally located together in a hub)?
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby Mastermind on Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:16 pm

Dogbo, you have proven time and time again you hate the suburbs, but you can't deny the fact that they are located closer to most of their employees, or at least half, by locating in the burbs. What is the mass transit rate in DSM, Iowa, and similarly sized cities? I'm sorry but downgrading their LEED rating becasue they are in WDM is stupid.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby dogbo on Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:45 am

I'm not going to dignify your first comment with a direct response. If you can't stay on discussion without attacking me, that says more about the strength (or lack thereof) of your points as opposed to doing anything to refute mine.

Bottom-line in my book. LEED award or not, what good does building an energy efficient building do if you've counteracted many of those positives with numerous negatives (as I've listed several time on this thread) resulting from the location of said building? It becomes just smoke and mirrors for the sake of trying to get some good PR and in the end it is not the positive overall environmental impact that the company would like people to believe.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby Mastermind on Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:45 pm

I'm not attacking you, I have never seen one positve word from you regarding a suburb, that is all.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby Philby on Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:18 pm

dogbo wrote:I'm not going to dignify your first comment with a direct response. If you can't stay on discussion without attacking me, that says more about the strength (or lack thereof) of your points as opposed to doing anything to refute mine.

Bottom-line in my book. LEED award or not, what good does building an energy efficient building do if you've counteracted many of those positives with numerous negatives (as I've listed several time on this thread) resulting from the location of said building? It becomes just smoke and mirrors for the sake of trying to get some good PR and in the end it is not the positive overall environmental impact that the company would like people to believe.


I could buy your argument in a metro area that had a white collar workforce that wasn't "allergic" to public transit, but in DSM everyone (95+%) is gonna drive to work anyway. So if probably makes no difference if the building was downtown or WDM. IDK if Aviva did this, but I wouldn't be surprised if a majority of their workforce calls a western suburb home, in which case (since everyone is gonna drive anyway) they may have made a better choice environmentally by locating in WDM, or its at least a wash compared to downtown.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby rasmeth on Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:55 pm

Maybe saying that employees are living by the new site anyway would be valid if everyone was in the Jordan Creek area, but Aviva surely has employees from Johnston, Ankeny, Altoona, older parts of Urbandale and Clive, and Des Moines proper. Downtown would be better for many of them. We know there's few living to the south and west of the new site with farms being located there.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby Altus on Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:18 am

My wife works at Aviva. She takes a ride share van, which starts it's trip in Marshalltown, made up of all Aviva employees. Of her peers in the van she's the closest to the office, and we live north of Bondurant. My neighbor also works west and takes a ride share from Ankeny.

We're no different than Chicago or DC, for example. The difference is that instead of ride share vans, they have trains that reach out quite a distance. People still live Way out west in Chicago (or north), and work downtown. The suburbs also have major headquarters located in them. The north run out of DC reaches out like 20 or 30 miles, doesn't it?

We'll need a few more million people around here before trains could becomes self sustaining. Our paradigm is going to take a while to shift. I do think that the old inter-urban line would have been great to capture and rebuild...

As long as I've studied and been involved in City Planning, one thing has held true; people act similarly, regardless of the generation. We wouldn't have hundereds of books talking about first and second tier, inner and outer rings, third and fourth rings, etc. if this were not the case. Most people do not want to live downtown. So many aspects of it are great, the romanticism is inviting but, in the end, we're in the American paradigm. Wide open spaces. Not saying it's right, but that's the case.

Specific to our metro, DSM and it's power brokers should have been planning for the annexation of the smaller towns generations ago. Why would a company, built purely for profit, locate 15 or 20 miles one way or the other? MONEY. The competition between the suburbs is far too much for DSM to tackle on it's own at this point.

If we want to talk about attainable effeciencies, let's think about consolidating about 40% or 50% of our 99 counties. Think of the energy savings.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby Ankeny Husker Freak on Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:42 am

Altus wrote:If we want to talk about attainable effeciencies, let's think about consolidating about 40% or 50% of our 99 counties. Think of the energy savings.


Forget the energy, think of the money being saved by consolidating counties. Iowa's 99 county format was developed based on the idea that no one citizen can be a day away from government via......horse and buggy.

Way off topic:

In some cases, this is already happening. Page & Montgomery counties in SW Iowa share a county road engineer and it has worked pretty well.

Another example; Corning, the county seat of Adams County (Iowa's smallest county), is roughly halfway between Red Oak & Creston, both county seats for their respective counties. I've always have thought that with the exception of sherriff and roads, the Adams County government should be dissolved and Adams County residents east of Corning go to Creston and Adams County residents west of Corning to to Red Oak.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby Mastermind on Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:38 am

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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby econboy on Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:01 am

Mastermind wrote:Aviva would consider selling WDM HQ
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/articl ... Des-Moines


Whether or not layoffs would come about would remain to be seen. But I would assume any sale may require some re-organizing. It's also possible any buyer could keep or even add additional employment too.

Again, should a sale occur....

Sometimes I get irritated at how hysteria blows up around these type of stories.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby dogbo on Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:02 am

^ generally speaking, it has worked out well for our metro when finacial companies have been bought out (i.e...greater expansion & growth locally). I'm not sure why this one feels different. I have zero inside knowledge on why this couldn't be as positive as well. Maybe it was just the tone of the article?
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby Mastermind on Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:11 am

dogbo wrote:^ generally speaking, it has worked out well for our metro when finacial companies have been bought out (i.e...greater expansion & growth locally). I'm not sure why this one feels different. I have zero inside knowledge on why this couldn't be as positive as well. Maybe it was just the tone of the article?

It all depends if a buyer would be expanding a business unit or starting a new one IMO. The biggest advantage would be the the building itself which is top notch.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby Keepgrowingdsm on Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:15 am

econboy wrote:
Mastermind wrote:Aviva would consider selling WDM HQ
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/articl ... Des-Moines


Whether or not layoffs would come about would remain to be seen. But I would assume any sale may require some re-organizing. It's also possible any buyer could keep or even add additional employment too.

Again, should a sale occur....

Sometimes I get irritated at how hysteria blows up around these type of stories.


Everything is for sale. . . .providing the right price is offered. I agree about the hysteria Econ, the article ends with a comment that right now a good sale price might not even be in consideration. I'm sure the CEO wanted investors to know that Aviva needs to keep all options open should an opportunity come in the future. Despite sales being down, the company did post a large profit!
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby mistertwister on Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:42 pm

Just to put a little context behind the interview. This is not the first time Andrew has said something like this. Keepgrowing is right. Every business is ultimately for sale for the right price. Meredith, Principal, John Deere....every one of them. Their financials are strong, the underlying products are well postiioned to weather a financial storm, and it is growing. Move along folks.....nothing to see here.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby Mastermind on Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:58 am

But every business doesnt publicly SAY they are for sale. He even put a price on the company for peats sake. I hope the movers and shakers in the metro arent putting their heads in the sand like some of you.

Fast-forward several years, however, and rumors have begun to swirl that Aviva might be looking to divest the business, with an April 11 report from London's Financial Times citing comments to that effect made by Aviva's CEO. In a separate report the next day, Reuters cited bankers as saying that U.S.-based Prudential Financial Inc. or MetLife Inc. might potentially be interested. There is also a slight chance that a Japanese insurer could be up for the acquisition. Analysts echoed similar sentiments in recent interviews with SNL.....

MetLife has some recent experience negotiating with Aviva, announcing a deal in January for the acquisition of Aviva's life insurance businesses in the Czech Republic and Hungary, as well as its life insurance and pension businesses in Romania. MetLife has been inking deals with other European players as well, announcing in June 2011 that it would be acquiring Dexia's life insurance business in Turkey.

http://www.snl.com/InteractiveX/article ... D=14658796
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby dogbo on Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:18 am

^ I'm not sure how this is a "mover and shakers" of DSM issue. ie...they appear to have zero leverage to do anything about this...at least that is my perpective. Can you clarify what you mean?
Last edited by dogbo on Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby Mastermind on Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:42 am

dogbo wrote:^ I'm not sure how this is a "mover and shakers" of DSM issue. ie...they are zero leverage to do anything about this...at least that is my perpective. Can you clarify what you mean?

I think they need a Plan B in the worst case scenario. Dont get caught unprepared if you lose a company with 1300 employees.
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Re: Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

Postby econboy on Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:12 pm

I'm not real concerned. Again even if they did get bought out, it may not affect employment that much.

And...even if it did I guess it's up to them if they want to put a brand new building on the market that THEY just spents millions of $$$ building just to turn over to a competitor or another entity to benefit from. It would likely get snapped up quickly anyway given the location and health of the metro.
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