Hampton Inn, South of Court

[hawk61401]

The concerns of nearby residents continue...

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/articl ... eedfetcher

I can understand Mike Draper's concerns but I also wonder if he isn't digging a little too deep. If I lived at 100 Water Street and spent $100,000 + , I would be concerned about the neighborhood and view too.

The parking garage would be about 10 feet taller than Draper’s building. “A parking garage would tower over our building,” Draper said. I'm not sure I would consider 10 feet as "towering". Draper would prefer residential be built on the block. But apparently, he would also have a problem if a residential building was built 10 feet taller than his.

[Mastermind]

Yeah, he should have stuck with his original argument IMO.

[casbern]

Yeah, he should have stuck with his original argument IMO.

This. Also, his argument isn't that a hotel downtown isn't needed. He just believes that this location/hotel type isn't beneficial for the site. If he could have taken another route, for instance, partnering up with Global Spectrum and making a statement about how the lack of hotel space actually decreases convention/concert usage, and that incentives for a hotel around WFA would be a much better use of city funds.

[dsmspence]

I'm really interested to see how this "Extended Stay Hotel" plan works out within the next 5 years. The current design of the Hampton Inn doesn't do much for me. Don't get me wrong, it's not bad, it just doesn't excite me much. It would be neat if the next hotel could get a little more interesting in terms of design. I really like the design found in Aloft Hotels, which seem like a natural fit for the Court Ave area.


Aloft Minneapolis


Aloft National Harbor (DC)


Aloft Minneapolis' Rooftop deck

[Mastermind]

Milwaukee Aloft is downtown

[hawk61401]

dsmspence, great idea about the Aloft Hotels. Des Moines city leaders thought of the design (sort of), the jobs it would create, the taxes it would generate, but nothing requiring what the Hampton Inn could bring to the riverwalk.

By it's design, Aloft Hotels encourages a social atmosphere. Isn't that the purpose of the riverwalk? Sooo, a hotel taking up a huge chunk of prime space on the riverwalk should do a minimum of that. An outdoor cafe?, nope. A rooftop deck?, nope.

Des Moines gets a hotel on the riverwalk that's only good if you are sleeping there. Nothing to see or do here, just mosey on by ...

[DMRyan]

Tough crowd to please with this project...

I think an aLoft type hotel would be great in the Court Avenue area as well, perhaps in the block located just one to the west of the Hampton Inn site or even on a portion of the large lot at 4th and Court. There's always the former riverfront YMCA site as well, but whatever project lands on this site has to be a blockbuster, marquee project due to it's important location. A hotel alone would not be enough.

[DMRyan]

This project was approved by the Plan and Zoning Commission tonight, with the parking garage now shifted along the 2nd Avenue frontage and the extended stay hotel along the Vine Street frontage on the north side of the block. The parking garage will also be redesigned, since it's been the point of contention for many. Many nearby residents weren't entirely content with the development, but the developer has attempted to work on some of the realistic site constraints that seemed to be the most bothersome.

The financial incentives package could be finally approved by the City Council this coming Monday night.

[hawk61401]

I understand what the residents are saying. There is never a guarantee when you buy property,” said CJ Stephens, a commission member. “I know that this site is one where these folks could do anything they wanted to because of the zoning and they have come to the plate over and over again and agreed to do the things that the city has asked

"Do anything they wanted"? I didn't know anyone could do anything they wanted without some standards set by the city. Hawkeye Hotels and their architect showed a lot of disrespect for eveyone in Des Moines by wanting to come bulldozing in with an interstate type hotel in the Water Street neighborhood and riverwalk. That was pretty damn crass.

Yes, the hotel will generate taxes but it shouldn't be the end-all. A lot of people living and a lot of people dead have invested their lives and money to make downtown Des Moines what it is today. There remain too many examples downtown which show poor planning, done on the cheap, and pure functionality.

So, Hawkeye Hotels have done a little tweaking to appease the neighbors and the city. Whoopie Do! They and their architect are still ignoring the Riverwalk by offering nothing that enhances it.

http://dmreg.co/zYD9BC

[dogbo]

^ IMO, I wouldn't call going from proposing a single hotel with surface parking taking up the entire city block to now agreeing to do two hoteld and a parking garage in that same about of space as "tweaking".

[hawk61401]

^ IMO, I wouldn't call going from proposing a single hotel with surface parking taking up the entire city block to now agreeing to do two hoteld and a parking garage in that same about of space as "tweaking".

I can't think of a riverwalk in the country that doesn't have outdoor cafes. There's nothing better that brings atmosphere, mingling, people watching.

It's a huge missed opportunity for the riverwalk. It will be another dead space between the hotel and river much like the east side and river facing of the YMCA.

[DMRyan]

Here's an example of a Residence Inn in Birmingham, Alabama, which looks a lot like the "extended stay" hotel for this site, only without the additional wing shown on the rear of the building.

[dogbo]

Hummmm...not sure what to think about this new wrinkle....

Des Moines’ Urban Design Review Board threw a wrench into plans for a downtown Hampton Inn hotel complex on Wednesday, recommending that City Council require a design change that the developer called a $400,000 deal-breaker.

The Urban Design Review Board includes professional architects and developers. The panel oversees any Des Moines development project applying for city assistance.

Ravi Patel of Hawkeye Hotels said Wednesday that if the City Council stands by the board’s recommendation at its Friday special hearing on the Hampton Inn, the $32.3 million project likely won’t occur

link: http://www.desmoinesregister.com/articl ... eedfetcher

[Ingersoll1978]

I don't think there will be a wrinkle tomorrow when the city council meets. Hummmm...a suburban $6 million hotel or a cheaper brick $32.3 million multi-hotel development?

[casbern]

I don't think there will be a wrinkle tomorrow when the city council meets. Hummmm...a suburban $6 million hotel or a cheaper brick $32.3 million multi-hotel development?

^ Agreed. This, IMO, was just the Urban Design Review Board saying that they do not approve of the overall project. And to a certain extent I agree with them. The hotel could be so much more, with ground level eating, retail, etc. However, the developer has more than bent over backwards to make this more than what it was originally.

[econboy]

I'll go back to my original thoughts that when it comes to downtown Des Moines, with all thats happened and continues to occur, fussing over this and MAYBE even driving the developer away (though he can move forward anyway) is what shoots Des Moines in the foot everytime.

Frustrating and hilarious everytime things like this happen.

Granted, everyone would love them to build a $100 Million dollar megaplex down there. Not gonna happen.

A city thats starving for tax revenue of any sort in this economy shouldn't be bullying people around when it comes to this big wide free world market.

Just sayin.....

[BenRoethig]

Tell me about it. Its not the 200 story billion dollar six-star hotel that people apparently expect everything to be, but this is a good development that will bring people and eventually business travelers to spend their money in downtown Des Moines. Compared to what it could have been or what's there now, its a home run.

[hawk61401]

No one expected this to be a 100 million dollar hotel or world class architecture. Des Moines got the best deal it could probably get from Ravi Patel. That doesn't excuse the dissing that he gave Des Moines. He had said that the city's input doesn't count and threatened to build a 6 million dollar "Patel Motel" with a surface parking lot if he there was a deal breaker. Ravi Patel's mission in life is to build hotels. He didn't care about the appropriateness of his project's design in relation to its urban context. Sherman Associates could have made the Vine Street and Metro Lofts far less attractive too.

But it's kind of like the Subway across from the sculpture garden. It's a big improvement compared to what is there now.

[hawk61401]

Ok, so the Des Moines City Council has delayed final approval until February 6th so that they can take a crash course in learning the difference between thin brick and real brick. Developer Ravi Patel wants to use thin brick because he says it looks and performs as well as full-sized brick, and much cheaper of course.

The Wickford Junction Parking Garage in Kingston, RI was built with thin brick. http://bit.ly/yv4hU6
Click on the images and click again to enlarge.

[speeder]

Thin brick, like real bricks cut in half and still laid in mortar or the precast thin brick? The precast, "looks like brick" is crap.

I notice with the precast stuff they make sure to not to show many older priojects or the corners where the panels are joined together... plus, "anyone can install it!"... yup, even untrained framers or drywall hangers. It is not an acceptable substitute for brick installed by trained masons.

[DMRyan]

I think good things will come out of slowing this process down to discuss all of the angles. It was on a hyper-drive speed due to the developer's need to close on the land, but that shouldn't tie the city into making a decision in haste. The city has a lot of money tied into the project and this is obviously such an important site that there is rightful concern over the quality of building materials on the project. I applaud Ravi Patel for sticking with the city through the process when it could have been easy to stick a fork in the project instead. While not the perfect project, the feedback from the neighbors has shaped this project for the better as well, although the boat left the dock long ago on discussing the merits of whether or not a hotel should be located at this site IMO.

The bad publicity this is getting is really leaving a black eye on the city though. I can't remember a downtown project since the Iowa Events Center that has generated such controversy and has been covered in the media like this project has. Lastly, there is much to do in the media about the developer being able to build a suburban prototype hotel here with no additional restrictions in place to prevent it. That's a load of bullsnot. There's multiple layers of design guidelines that are still applicable to this site to keep it a high quality project that's urban in character. Would it be of the scale that the current project is without city assistance? Very likely not, but the city has ample measures in place to ensure that the Ankeny Hampton Inn doesn't get replicated on this site.

[DMRyan]

I'll go back to my original thoughts that when it comes to downtown Des Moines, with all thats happened and continues to occur, fussing over this and MAYBE even driving the developer away (though he can move forward anyway) is what shoots Des Moines in the foot everytime.

Frustrating and hilarious everytime things like this happen.

Granted, everyone would love them to build a $100 Million dollar megaplex down there. Not gonna happen.

A city thats starving for tax revenue of any sort in this economy shouldn't be bullying people around when it comes to this big wide free world market.

Just sayin.....

I disagree.

Des Moines actually has a long history of caving in and giving developers what they want for the sake of the cash-strapped central city getting virtually any type of development they can get, just for the sake of having development. Take a drive down Merle Hay Road or SE 14th Street. Look at the newer development and compare it to what's getting built in Clive of most of West Des Moines. There's obviously some major demographic/economic differences at play, but the development standards for the city are probably middle of the road when compared to the standards in many parts of the western suburbs, with the exception of downtown and a few select corridors. Why not keep the standards high for downtown, which even after taking a major hit on property valuations is still the city's largest economic generator by far? It's worked tremendously well so far.

Give some developers a free market with no restrictions and they'll be putting up 4 story Morton buildings or whatever else could be the cheapest possible cost to them while they can still make a profit. Besides, this project ain't the free market when the city ends up have having $5-$8 million in it by the time it's said and done.

[hawk61401]

I emailed the mayor and council members http://bit.ly/Ani5Cu and ...

The water intrusion at the vacant Natomas school was the result of thin brick veneer installed when the school was built, Cannon said. "If you don't seal it properly and reseal it, it leaks," he said.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/10/21/399229 ... rylink=cpy

[Mastermind]

I emailed the mayor and council members http://bit.ly/Ani5Cu and ...

The water intrusion at the vacant Natomas school was the result of thin brick veneer installed when the school was built, Cannon said. "If you don't seal it properly and reseal it, it leaks," he said.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/10/21/399229 ... rylink=cpy

Scramento? Listen, brick veneer is used everywhere, including WDM, Clive, Ankeny, etc.

[hawk61401]

Scramento? Listen, brick veneer is used everywhere, including WDM, Clive, Ankeny, etc.

Oh I know. Just had to do my part for a cousin that lives in the Vine St Lofts who isn't too happy.

[hawk61401]

An email from Chris Hensley.

Thanks for the info. Did you know the Nationwide/Allied building is thin brick? That is why we want to make sure we have agreement on how it will be installed. That seems to be the issue. Again, thanks , Chris

[dogbo]

Downtown hotel decision stalled until Feb. 6
8:25 PM, Jan 27, 2012 | by Josh Hafner
While the Des Moines City Council Friday delayed final approval on the much-debated hotel project proposed for downtown, one conclusion did come forward: The council doesn’t know enough about thin bricks.

Earlier this week, a city design board recommended that the project’s developer use full bricks on the street-facing sides of the Hampton Inn and an extended stay hotel slated for the 100 block of Water Street just west of the Des Moines River. Developer Ravi Patel had planned to use thin brick panels, a cheaper alternative that he says looks and performs as well as full-sized brick.

Patel of Hawkeye Hotels in Burlington said the requirement would cost him about $400,000. He called the requirement a “deal breaker” for a financial incentives plan between his company and the city that would allow for what many called much higher quality hotels than the single hotel Patel suggested without city assistance.

link: http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/ ... til-feb-6/

[dogbo]

An email from Chris Hensley.

Thanks for the info. Did you know the Nationwide/Allied building is thin brick? That is why we want to make sure we have agreement on how it will be installed. That seems to be the issue. Again, thanks , Chris

From personal experience, whenever I send emails to all members of the city council, I ALWAYS hear back from Hensley and often times she's the most timely. I really appreciate how responsive she is (even on issues we don't agree on).

[dogbo]

An email from Chris Hensley.

Thanks for the info. Did you know the Nationwide/Allied building is thin brick? That is why we want to make sure we have agreement on how it will be installed. That seems to be the issue. Again, thanks , Chris

That is a pretty good example IMO showing that thin brick (if done correctly) works very well. I had no idea that Nationwide buildings weren't full brick.

Final thought: Let's get this done!

[hawk61401]

An email from Chris Hensley.

Thanks for the info. Did you know the Nationwide/Allied building is thin brick? That is why we want to make sure we have agreement on how it will be installed. That seems to be the issue. Again, thanks , Chris

From personal experience, whenever I send emails to all members of the city council, I ALWAYS hear back from Hensley and often times she's the most timely. I really appreciate how responsive she is (even on issues we don't agree on).

dogbo, exactly. You hit it squarely on the head. I heard back from Chris within hours and on a Saturday. She doesn't shut down for the weekend. I heard from one other council member. Can't remember which one at the moment. He has a brother in Sacramento. It took him two or three days to respond.