Did Northwest Airlink pull CRJ service?

[bettman]

I couldn't find a newspaper article in the W-CF Courier that said anything, but it appears as if regional jet service at the Waterloo Airport was terminated sometime this spring. Northwest Airlink is down to just three flights per day out of Waterloo, all operating with Saab turboprops. I know Waterloo had been trying to hang on to their regional jet service to MSP. Does anyone know more about this?

[Des Moineser]

If you check the timetables on the Delta website you will find that the Sunday morning MSP flight is still served by a Canadair Jet.

[bettman]

I see that. It's odd that there's only one CRJ flight per week now, and it's during the weekend.

[Des Moineser]

It must be a placement issue, because, yeah, Sunday morning morning service on jet doesn't seem to make sense for this market.

[BenRoethig]

Look on the bright side, Delta didn't just pull out like they did in many of Northwest's other smaller destinations.

[Des Moineser]

I would imagine jet service will build back slowly as the economy recovers. The Sunday early morning being jet servce doesn't make much sense to me unless it is placed there as a RON for some other network reason.

[BenRoethig]

Interesting development as Delta has sold its Mesaba airlines subsidiary to Pinnacle Airlines. No word on how this will effect operations in Waterloo and other Iowa airports.

[Des Moineser]

I personally think it'll lead to jet-only service. Pinnacle has a jet only fleet and Mesaba also has a fleet of CRJ-200s and 900s, like Pinnacle. They might look to sell off the Saab 340 turboprops if they are looking to reduce maintenance costs or something. We shall see.

[BenRoethig]

Their Colgan Air division operates 34 of the Saab 340Bs.

[Des Moineser]

You are right, hmmm... maybe the rest of the Saabs end up with Colgan? Although Pinnacle's fleet is supposed to remain independent. Who knows, everything is really shuffling around right now.

[bettman]

From what I've heard, Delta/Northwest will be grounding most all of their 30-50 seat regional jets over the next few years. They just aren't profitable when compared to turboprops on most routes. The Sunday CRJ flight seems to have vanished from ALO as well. Barring some unforseen turnaround in the airline industry, it's hard to image Waterloo will regain jet service very soon.

[Mastermind]

From what I've heard, Delta/Northwest will be grounding most all of their 30-50 seat regional jets over the next few years. They just aren't profitable when compared to turboprops on most routes. The Sunday CRJ flight seems to have vanished from ALO as well. Barring some unforseen turnaround in the airline industry, it's hard to image Waterloo will regain jet service very soon.

What do you mean by this, the airlines are expecting profits this year.

[bettman]

What do you mean by this, the airlines are expecting profits this year.

Of course they are. They get profits by slashing service on unprofitable routes. Do you think airlines will go back to an unprofitable business model if the economic environment remains the same over the next couple years?

[Mastermind]

I think its the fees, no or limited food and beverage service, and paying regional pilots $25,000 a year.

[Des Moineser]

The 50-seat regional jets aren't very profitable when oil prices are high, it's true. They aren't very efficient per seat-mile compared to a 737 or a Q400. The Saab 340s that serve Waterloo are also much more efficient.

Delta might be pulling these jets in anticipation of high prices in the future in addition to low utilization now.

Wouldn't that make sense that if an airline was not making money on a route that they would pull service? The margins are so slim in the airline industry (at least among legacy carriers) to start with that its understandable. As for turboprops, the have a break-even point at a much lower utilization than a jet, so this move protects MSP service to ALO.

[QuadCityImages]

I know that if there's any competition offering jet service, I'm not taking a turboprop unless it saves $100. Currently MLI is all-jet, but with this discussion I wonder if we'll start seeing some Saabs again.

[siouxperland]

Delta did the opposite in Sioux City, dumped the Saabs for jets, all props gone.

[BenRoethig]

They're shipping most of them to Atlanta.

[siouxperland]

They're shipping most of them to Atlanta.

To what? A landfill? The old ASA (Atlantic Southeast Airlines) had some Slobs & Fairchilds in the 90's that flew into ATL. Mesaba taking up residence at ATL now? There goes the neighborhood! The airspace around ATL is so congested as it is the world's busiest airport in pas/movements and has been for over a decade after overtaking O'Hare (who is now 3rd behind Beijing), props would severely cramp it's traffic. But then again, Delta rules ATL with over 800 flights a day so what Delta wants, Delta gets. If they want Slobs slowing down their mainliners, so be it! They set a world record for airport movements in 2007 for a year at 994,346 or 2,724 TO/Landings a day which still stands.

One of the coolest websites an airport could have is the Live ATC Control page for ATL, radars, towers, approach control... all for your listening and viewing pleasure! http://www.airtrafficatlanta.com/

[JMsioux]

Delta did the opposite in Sioux City, dumped the Saabs for jets, all props gone.

...For all six flights. I remember, not too awfully long ago that the airport had nearly 40 flights per day.

[siouxperland]

Delta did the opposite in Sioux City, dumped the Saabs for jets, all props gone.

...For all six flights. I remember, not too awfully long ago that the airport had nearly 40 flights per day.

40? For SC? Noooooooo... never. I think the mid 80's was the heydey and that was maybe 20 flights a day but a nice capacity at a couple thousand seats a day. United had 4 mainline flights (2 DEN, 2 ORD), TWA had 5 flights to STL (4 DC9, 1 727 evening stubby), America West had 4 or 5 737's that went to PHX, LAS) and some commuter flights on Air Midwest to KC (a feeder & codeshare for the old Eastern hub in Kansas City) and one commuter airline that escapes my memory which preceded Northwest coming to town. Back in the 70's it was Ozark & Republic. In the 60's it was Ozark, Braniff & North Central. In the early 80's before United started DEN service, there was a first try by Frontier flying 737's into SC. United started ORD service I believe in 87(?) on 727s, the old 3 holer sootboxes.

It's a good rumor we'll get Allegiant sometime this next year with a few weekly flights to LAS and possibly United Express to Chicago, as the city hands them a $500K air grant for service development costs. The grant would only go to an airline that would provide Chicago service. Delta is eligible to apply but they're not going to bypass MSP for SUX>ORD nonstops. I'd gladly give Delta the money to start up SUX>ATL nonstops.

[JMsioux]

I specifically remember the Journal ad touting 19 inbound and 19 outbound flights which they deemed to be 38 flights per day. A matter of semantics? I suppose...though I really have no idea . Is it only considered a 'flight' if it's outbound? Again, I dunno...Between '95 and '98 the airport still had over 100,000 enplanements per year. It wasn't too long after that, the mass exodus of flights, airlines and passengers occurred and the airport has settles on six per day and it's settled on about 32,000 enplanements.

[siouxperland]

A flight = A turnaround, in other words, a plane in, a plane out is a flight. Now, 19 flights would be 38 movements. I was on a United flight back then on my way to Austin TX via Denver and and there was a United 737 to Chicago in front of us, a TWA DC9 in front of him and an America West 737 heading to PHX. There had been a hellacious winter storm roll through and all flights were grounded in SC until about 9am when they deemed de-icing effective enough. The pilot comes on and says "We're currently 4th for take off.... yeah... I know, thats the kind of thing you hear at O'Hare..."

The record year for Sioux Gateway was 212,000 passengers, that was sometime in the 80s....88? 89...something like that.

[bettman]

I know that if there's any competition offering jet service, I'm not taking a turboprop unless it saves $100. Currently MLI is all-jet, but with this discussion I wonder if we'll start seeing some Saabs again.

Highly unlikely. Northwest Airlink (back when it was still called that) played around with SF34s on a few of their routes to Moline after they had already introduced the CRJs. It didn't last very long. I'm positive that's because the airline saw no advantage to using those in this market. As long as QCIA keeps their CRJs mostly full, I doubt the airlines will be downgrading their equipment.

I'm guessing the decision to end CRJ service in Waterloo had to do with economics. For awhile, the city was actually subsidizing Northwest to maintain one jet flight per day between MSP and ALO. It's likely the costs of that subsidy reached a point where the city could no longer justify the expense. Waterloo had tinkered with jet service before in the late 1990s, when Northwest operated one DC9 per day to MSP. That service also failed to be economically feasible and was terminated before the CRJs came into vogue.

Waterloo used to have six carriers (NW Airlink, American Eagle, TW Express, United Express, Midway Connection, and Eastern Express) in the late 1980s. They've only had one carrier for quite awhile now. The market doesn't seem to support their air service in substantial numbers, due mainly to competition from The Eastern Iowa Airport.

[WaterlooDave]

In what may be some good news, Delta's application for essential air service subsidy (EAS) has resulted in a competing bid from American.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/two-airlines-vying-to-serve-waterloo-fliers/article_e0890122-884f-50b5-b43f-1d48e8259215.html?mode=story

I would suggest Delta should not get the contract. Delta/NWA is the company that has had a monopoly at the airport for nearly 10 years. They have allowed service and boardings to wither to the point that it qualified for essential air service subsidy. If I remember correctly boardings are less than half what they were at the beginning of Delta/NWA only service. Why pay them to continue to ignore the market?

Look what has been accomplished in Dubuque. American has four round trips per day to Chicago with service to Dallas on the way.

I am curious to hear from anyone in Dubuque about what is driving what appears to be a growing level of service? Is it because of American's efforts to develop the market? Is the airport manager actively involved in the development?

[siouxperland]

In what may be some good news, Delta's application for essential air service subsidy (EAS) has resulted in a competing bid from American.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/two-airlines-vying-to-serve-waterloo-fliers/article_e0890122-884f-50b5-b43f-1d48e8259215.html?mode=story

I would suggest Delta should not get the contract. Delta/NWA is the company that has had a monopoly at the airport for nearly 10 years. They have allowed service and boardings to wither to the point that it qualified for essential air service subsidy. If I remember correctly boardings are less than half what they were at the beginning of Delta/NWA only service. Why pay them to continue to ignore the market?

Look what has been accomplished in Dubuque. American has four round trips per day to Chicago with service to Dallas on the way.

I am curious to hear from anyone in Dubuque about what is driving what appears to be a growing level of service? Is it because of American's efforts to develop the market? Is the airport manager actively involved in the development?

American won out here BUT Delta has not said for sure they are leaving after not winning the EAS. Many people were upset (me included) that Delta lost because essentially, Chicago service is only east bound service. Delta has flights scheduled for long after American starts service here. American is in the bottom of the barrel when it comes to customer satisfaction and O'Hare is no treat for cities like ours that have so few flights. No big deal getting delayed or cancelled in O'Hare if you're flying to some place that has 3 or 4 airlines and 2 dozen flights between Chicago and your home but that's not our case. At least the flights listed so far are $100 or less in difference than Omaha. American has also said they will likely also start Dallas service, maybe as early as mid summer for Sioux City and Allegiant is rumored for this fall to Las Vegas & directs to PHX.

[siouxperland]

Not sure how things are going in 'Loo but people here seem to be ignoring American in droves. Flights are not filling up and people are buying tickets out of Omaha for summer travel. American doesn't make much sense for travel west of Sioux City so half the possible market is ignoring AA flights here. Even with round-trips to LA for less than $300, people don't want to spend 4 hours going back and forth to O'Hare just to head west. Better to drive to Omaha and save 3 hours.

For the people going east, there are some good buys, even people that normally fly out of Sioux Falls from eastern SD are buying tickets that are much lower to the same cities versus flying from SF.

American is possibly going to be sold during bankruptcy sometime this year and the top suitor is.... Delta. After all this we may end up right back at the start.

[Mastermind]

Not sure how things are going in 'Loo but people here seem to be ignoring American in droves. Flights are not filling up and people are buying tickets out of Omaha for summer travel. American doesn't make much sense for travel west of Sioux City so half the possible market is ignoring AA flights here. Even with round-trips to LA for less than $300, people don't want to spend 4 hours going back and forth to O'Hare just to head west. Better to drive to Omaha and save 3 hours.

For the people going east, there are some good buys, even people that normally fly out of Sioux Falls from eastern SD are buying tickets that are much lower to the same cities versus flying from SF.

American is possibly going to be sold during bankruptcy sometime this year and the top suitor is.... Delta. After all this we may end up right back at the start.

At best you save 1 hour each way. And thats if you want to leave Sioux City at 5:00am and drive to OMA.

SUX to ORD is 1.5 hours.
Driving and parking in OMA will take 1.5 hours

ORD to LAX is 4.5 hours
OMA to LAX is 3.5 hours and it is at 7:35am.

[siouxperland]

Not sure how things are going in 'Loo but people here seem to be ignoring American in droves. Flights are not filling up and people are buying tickets out of Omaha for summer travel. American doesn't make much sense for travel west of Sioux City so half the possible market is ignoring AA flights here. Even with round-trips to LA for less than $300, people don't want to spend 4 hours going back and forth to O'Hare just to head west. Better to drive to Omaha and save 3 hours.

For the people going east, there are some good buys, even people that normally fly out of Sioux Falls from eastern SD are buying tickets that are much lower to the same cities versus flying from SF.

American is possibly going to be sold during bankruptcy sometime this year and the top suitor is.... Delta. After all this we may end up right back at the start.

At best you save 1 hour each way. And thats if you want to leave Sioux City at 5:00am and drive to OMA.

SUX to ORD is 1.5 hours.
Driving and parking in OMA will take 1.5 hours

ORD to LAX is 4.5 hours
OMA to LAX is 3.5 hours and it is at 7:35am.

It'll be better after the Dallas flights are added this summer, at least for people heading south & west.

[WaterlooDave]

Well over the weekend I took the new American Eagle service to Chicago from Waterloo. It was great to be in Chicago at 5:20 on a Friday afternoon and back in Waterloo at 8:30 Sunday night. The best part was going to a Cubs game Sunday afternoon and not have to dread a five hour drive ahead.

Regarding use of the service, I have been randomly checking seating maps for the various flight and the 6:30 am departure and the 7:30 pm return seem to be the most popular. The afternoon flights seem to be more of a mixed bag from what I can tell. My flight to Chicago at 4 pm on Friday only had 20 but the return flight Sunday evening had 42. That works out to an average load factor of 70% for those two flights.