Ingersoll Square Condo/Commercial Project

[DMRyan]

I'll see what I can dig up for building elevations. I would imagine the P & Z will ask for some minor tweaks to the architecture and/or building materials when it is up for review on September 20th.

[NOG]

Ryan, were you able to get any updates on how the retail buildings will look? Its kinda of sad to see how these have slowly gone from multi story mixed use buildings to basically suburban style strip malls. I guess the one saving grace is the NPC zoning requirements for minimal setbacks.

[SFO2DSM]

It's official! Ingersoll Square is now leasing units in addition to selling them. Bring on the comments!

[Ingersoll1978]

I'd rather see them do that (and fill it) than wait for them to sell over the next couple of years. Although, as a owner of a unit, I wouldn't like it. They did that here at 3031 Grand (same developer) for a few of the unsold units. They then sell them as their leases run out. They only have three of them left like that...and they are all occupied. One of them is next to our unit, and she is the nicest lady. There were concerns that they would bring in roudy students...but that really hasn't happened.

[josh]

It's official! Ingersoll Square is now leasing units in addition to selling them. Bring on the comments!

This is very smart, but I would be willing to bet that it will no longer make sense to buy. Rent will be cheaper than purchasing, so people will rent instead.

[dogbo]

It's official! Ingersoll Square is now leasing units in addition to selling them. Bring on the comments!

This is very smart, but I would be willing to bet that it will no longer make sense to buy. Rent will be cheaper than purchasing, so people will rent instead

The rent vs. buy decision is more complex than simply -- which will give me a lower monthly payment. For instance, the money you pay in rent is gone once you've made your payment. Conversely, the money you pay in a mortgage payments goes directly towards an investment that with time appreciates in value and additionally provides a tax break in both mortgage interest and property taxes paid.

The bottom-line is, law makers have decided that home ownership is good for our economy and thus have tilted the Tax Code in favor of buying (over renting) long term

[josh]

It's official! Ingersoll Square is now leasing units in addition to selling them. Bring on the comments!

This is very smart, but I would be willing to bet that it will no longer make sense to buy. Rent will be cheaper than purchasing, so people will rent instead

The rent vs. buy decision is more complex than simply -- which will give me a lower monthly payment. For instance, the money you pay in rent is gone once you've made your payment. Conversely, the money you pay in a mortgage payments goes directly towards an investment that with time appreciates in value and additionally provides a tax break in both mortgage interest and property taxes paid.

The bottom-line is, law makers have decided that home ownership is good for our economy and thus have tilted the Tax Code in favor of buying (over renting) long term

Appreciation isn't guaranteed, and for 5 years you pay very little in principle. And I mean very little. A few dollars a month.

I do agree that long term ownership is better, but if it's several hundred dollars more per month to own, and I don't plan on living in a certain place for more than a couple years, why buy?

[dogbo]

True, but now you've added variables that do play a part in the decision making processes. Originally you said point blank that "it will no longer make sense". That is what I was questioning because I don't believe that is a fair statement for everyone.

Also, the amount of interest vs. principle you pay in the early years isn't a constant either. It all depends on the term of the loan (e.g 15 vs 30yr), the interest rate, and how much a person puts down as a down payment ,etc. For example, not everyone moving into downtown condos is a first-time home buyer. Many come into the purchase after having sold a property they previously lived and thus have some equity that has turned into a sizable down payment. They may be buying a $295,000 condo, but they bring $100,000 towards the purchased due to the equity the got out of their prior residence. This may make their monthly payment very competative with rental prices and if they plan to live there for a reasonable period of time, it would seem that buying would be the better financial decision.

[josh]

True, but now you've added variables that do play a part in the decision making processes. Originally you said point blank that "it will no longer make sense". That is what I was questioning because I don't believe that is a fair statement for everyone.

Also, the amount of interest vs. principle you pay in the early years isn't a constant either. It all depends on the term of the loan (e.g 15 vs 30yr), the interest rate, and how much a person puts down as a down payment ,etc. For example, not everyone moving into downtown condos is a first-time home buyer. Many come into the purchase after having sold a property they previously lived and thus have some equity that has turned into a sizable down payment. They may be buying a $295,000 condo, but they bring $100,000 towards the purchased due to the equity the got out of their prior residence. This may make their monthly payment very competative with rental prices and if they plan to live there for a reasonable period of time, it would seem that buying would be the better financial decision.

But the renter doesn't have to put down $100,000 either.

All I was trying to say, which I did poorly I guess, is that if you can rent a place for less than buying more people are going to rent. They may fill the building up, but I would be willing to bet it will be with very few buyers.

There's more than 10 years worth of supply on the market downtown right now, so from a developer stand point leasing make a lot of sense. It just sucks for the people that have already bought that's all.

[DMRyan]

Where did you hear that there is a 10 year of supply on the downtown market? Everything I've heard, or that is has been said in newspaper articles from experts on the downtown housing market has listed a 3-4 year supply.

I agree that these conversions of units to apartments is doing nothing to ease the assurance of those that have bought down there, which is troubling. It appears that the with the over supply of condos, and Iowans generally tepid attitude towards buying into something not tried and tested, people that have bought will probably be in for the long haul before they see any real dramatic appreciation in their condo units. They will though, look at The Plaza Condos, look at Brown Camp. I'm just worried about saturation of apartment units pretty soon too, if all of these apartment projects get off of the ground at once. It may be a slow few years coming up for residential projects downtown (in comparison to the roaring speed of 06'-07'. Luckily we have our population growth and a pretty appealing downtown to continue to lure in the young to the apartments, and a couple of empty nesters to the $$ condos.

[DMRyan]

Ryan, were you able to get any updates on how the retail buildings will look? Its kinda of sad to see how these have slowly gone from multi story mixed use buildings to basically suburban style strip malls. I guess the one saving grace is the NPC zoning requirements for minimal setbacks.

Last I heard, the building materials was being changed slightly after the Plan and Zoning Commission, so the rendering I have is no longer current.

[josh]

Where did you hear that there is a 10 year of supply on the downtown market? Everything I've heard, or that is has been said in newspaper articles from experts on the downtown housing market has listed a 3-4 year supply.

I agree that these conversions of units to apartments is doing nothing to ease the assurance of those that have bought down there, which is troubling. It appears that the with the over supply of condos, and Iowans generally tepid attitude towards buying into something not tried and tested, people that have bought will probably be in for the long haul before they see any real dramatic appreciation in their condo units. They will though, look at The Plaza Condos, look at Brown Camp. I'm just worried about saturation of apartment units pretty soon too, if all of these apartment projects get off of the ground at once. It may be a slow few years coming up for residential projects downtown (in comparison to the roaring speed of 06'-07'. Luckily we have our population growth and a pretty appealing downtown to continue to lure in the young to the apartments, and a couple of empty nesters to the $$ condos.

I wrote about it on my site. 350+ units on the market right now, coming off a whopping 3 sales in September. Total units was over 600, but with Gateway dropping off and other developers taking some of their listings down things look a lot rosier than they actually are......

It's too bad really. I'd love to see more development happen, but when you look at numbers it's hard to see a lot coming.

[DMRyan]

I do agree, there probably won't be too many condo developers that enthusiastic about the near future. The exception could be Hubbell, which may push ahead with the lower priced condos in the Mitchell Transmission Building, and the townhome configuration of the Midtown project on MLK and High Streets. If there are 400 condo units on the market and between 50-60 condo units are selling every year, it could be about 6-7 years to eat up the entire inventory. Hopefully things speed up, and I think having a little bit of inventory on the market is desireable to give buyers an option without having to wait two years for more condos to get built.

Here's a photo of the rendering of Ingersoll's Square's commercial project. Underbuilding this site, IMO. This would've looked great at the originally proposed three stories, now it looks like a Waukee stripmall with no setbacks. It will still bring some great tenants to Ingersoll and MLK though.

Courtesy of Simonson & Associates

[Philby]

It is unfortunate that there will only be 1 story...if you ask me this is another very desirable spot to have apartments - you're a little ways out of downtown - but still close. You can walk to ingersoll or DT. Right by the gateway market and all the shops that will be opening up on the 1st floor. Parking shouldn't be an issue. Easy access to the freeway and airport.

Maybe if the ingersoll condos rent quickly they'll reconsider and put another floor or two of apartments above these shops...although I still think the rental market is strong enough to justify building units regardless of how quickly the condos rent...

not to mention that it'll be a lot easier to rent storefronts if there's a couple hundred people living right above the stores...probably could ask more for monthly lease too.

[wmjindsm]

They had been doing a little work leveling things off and pouring some concrete on the commercial site. But today when I was leaving work, they were latching some kind of footing beams (I don't know what they call it) to the cement. The building is now rising up.

[Better Life dude]

They had been doing a little work leveling things off and pouring some concrete on the commercial site. But today when I was leaving work, they were latching some kind of footing beams (I don't know what they call it) to the cement. The building is now rising up.

Weren't we talking about Chipotle Grill being a tenant here? My mouth is watering in anticipation.

[Des Moineser]

Hopefully a Jimmy John's too. Although it'd be nicer to have them in the old Iowa State Bank slot, or somewhere nearby.

[SFO2DSM]

According to Grubb & Ellis, 70% of the first ~14,000 sf retail building is already spoken for, but they didn't name any of the tenants.

[DMRyan]

Hopefully the names of the tenants are released soon and construction can begin on the 2nd phase of retail. I'm pulling hard for Buffalo Wild Wings. We need a Mongolian grill type place downtown too.

After seeing the steel rising on this project, I keep thinking how much better it would look if it were still three stories.

[Philby]

I'm still shocked they decided not to put apartments on the upper levels.

I'm not sure who's building these, but I would think even a "suburban strip mall" like the ones around Jordan Creek and on 50th/Mills would be perfect. brick/stone facade (even tho it's probably fake), "lofts" on the upper 2 floors (which probably would have worked better as apartments in this area of town), and (as much as I hate to say it) some popular chain restaurants like Buff Wild Wings, Chipotle, Hu Hot, a tanning salon, etc.

The only change they would have had to make is to put the buildings against the road and the parking in the middle. Granted some of those places usually don't have 2 entrances, but it could have been worked around. Or they could have built a walkway every 2 or 3 storefronts for people to get from one side of the building to the other (regardless of where they put the main entrances).

[WayOutWest]

There WILL be a Chipotle there for sure. The deal got signed a couple weeks ago, sorry I have been busy lately and haven't been checking the site.

[Better Life dude]

There WILL be a Chipotle there for sure. The deal got signed a couple weeks ago, sorry I have been busy lately and haven't been checking the site.

Awesome.

[Young DSM Social Club]

Very exciting!

Agree seems very stupid not to put apartments above. With places like this on the bottom, they would have rented easily.

With the numerous projects they have done, you'd think the builder would have bigger pockets to do the project the way it should be done, but apparently not ...

[Ex-Chicago]

The first phase of the new retail building along Ingersoll Avenue. I'm still missing those two extra stories that were a part of the original proposal.

I drive past this project every day on the way to work.....it doesn't appear that they've worked on it at all for several weeks. Does anybody know why work seems to have stopped on the project?

[econboy]

Weather is most likely a major factor.

[Ex-Chicago]

Weather is most likely a major factor.

Makes sense to me.

[DMRyan]

It's probably hard to tell by the photos, but driving by this project tonight, I noticed there were a lot more balconies that had 'stuff' on them. This is indicitive of the building starting to fill up. There are noticeably more cars in the Gateway Lofts parking lot lately too. It may not have been as easy as the developers imagined with condo sales, but having a leasing option for apartments seems to be working to get bodies in the buildings.

[DMRyan]

The DSM Business Record is reporting that the next residential phase of construction of this project could start by the end of summer. They've had some success in leasing the apartments in Ingersoll Square, enough to move ahead with a substantial next phase.

Ingersoll Square

Pinnacle Construction Group also has been busy working on the $1.5 million retail component at Ingersoll Square, which is close to completion.

The retail element is the second phase of the project and will feature six units totaling 14,000 square feet. Each unit will contain around 2,000 to 3,000 square feet.

Ingersoll Lofts, the apartment complex that was completed in the fall of last year, was the first of four phases anticipated for that parcel of land.

Pinnacle also was responsible for the design of Ingersoll Lofts and was asked to make the retail component match the residential.

"The idea was to make them look similar," said Justin Scheeder, who manages the project for Pinnacle. "They wanted the limestone columns more than anything and something that matched the apartments."

Once the second phase is completed, construction will begin on more residential condominiums.

The beginning of construction on the third phase is "tentatively scheduled for the end of August," Scheeder said. "New plans were just completed this week."

The final phase will be another retail building similar to the one that is currently being constructed.

Pinnacle negotiated a contract with the property owner for the entirety of the project.

[Better Life dude]

That's welcome news.

[Hojo]

I saw on Craigslist that Chipotle is hiring assistant managers and general managers for the Des Moines area - just fanning the flames....