Sioux City: Tyson Center has done little for downtown

[Peachtree]

The big downer came when the YMCA backed out of operating the Long Lines Center as part of their domain. They would have given the thing good management. YMCA decided to go off and build a whole new complex and do their own thing somewhere else in the city, on the South Sioux City side of the river if I remember correctly.

[dmluvr]

First of all....after a 1000 post, it's great to be back to what this thread was about

Anyways, it sounds like Tyson, Gateway....YMCA..JO Momma, whatever it's called is doing well, being opened for 2 years and already talk of expansion??? Hell yeah!!

One thing that seemed kind of funny on how identical WFA and tyson's sky boxes look.

[Peachtree]

One thing that seemed kind of funny on how identical WFA and tyson's sky boxes look.

They all look pretty much alike, even a mac daddy arena like Staples Center in LA, the suites are pretty much the same as Sioux City's.

Staples Center Suite:



Atlanta Philips Arena Suite:


Omaha Qwest Center Suite:

[DMRyan]

Holy hell, Phillips Arena's are nice! That could be a yacht or ultra luxrious tour bus if I didn't already know what I was looking at.

[Ingersoll1978]

They need to get flat panels in there!

[Peachtree]

Holy hell, Phillips Arena's are nice! That could be a yacht or ultra luxrious tour bus if I didn't already know what I was looking at.

They are nice... they're also stacked on one side of the arena several levels thick. This eliminates the need for a suite level concource. It centralizes suite support like kitchen/bar service. It gives suite holders a seperate/secure area and entrance. It allowed for a large lower level food court utilizing several of Atlanta's finer restaurants for food service. It put 100 suites (96 leaseable, 4 rental) all on one wall which also allowed the arena designers to put more seats closer to the floor since the suite level was eliminated. Pure genius from a design standpoint. Also a money standpoint. There are fewer "dog" locations. Instead of having a suite on an end or corner, they're all along the sideline of the hockey rink or basketball court. The suites are nice in Atlanta but you have to remember the people buying them. CEO's of Home Depot. Tom Glavine (former Braves pitcher), Usher, Julia Roberts has one (she spends a lot of time in her home town of Smyrna, GA), Elton John, Evander Holyfield and other celeb types. Delta Airlines has the nicest suite of all. All the chairs in their 2 level suite are the leather recliner sleeper chairs out of their transcontinental 777's.

[Twiztid1]

Sioux City is in good shape until Sioux Falls builds an arena.

[Peachtree]

Sioux City is in good shape until Sioux Falls builds an arena.

Which if happens won't happen for years.

[dmluvr]

even then, i think sioux city will be alright.

[Peachtree]

even then, i think sioux city will be alright.

It should. I'd be more worried about the business the arena in Sioux City gets once Des Moines' arena comes online more than if Sioux Falls built one, that's what might actually hurt. Some promoters are having it easy with a nice 1,2,3 where a show will be in the Xcel in St. Paul, then Gateway in Sioux City and then Qwest in Omaha or The Mark in QC. I can easily see that shifting to DM this fall. Sioux Falls can't afford an arena, no matter how well the city is doing without giving some things up. The taxpayers there have already seen several large ticket projects bomb like the Pavillion (turned an old high school into an arts/performance center). The Pavillion hasn't made dime one but it's cost plenty and requires a substantial subsidy. The minute the Orpheum in Sioux City opened up in 2001, they REALLY took a nose dive in shows. The Great Hall in the Pavillion only seats 1800 while the Orpheum seats 2650, another factor in shows bypassing Sioux Falls for Sioux City. The Orpheum is also much more opulent and historical, performers have been eating it up ever since. Even the Sioux Falls entertainment editor Robert Morast said "Basically, the Orpheum feels like an upper-class theater ripped out of an old black-and-white movie and given a Technicolor treatment. The ambiance alone is worth the price of admission. Makes the [our] Great Hall in the Pavillion look like a BARN"

[DMRyan]

I long for the day that Sioux City is able to show up Sioux Falls again. I don't know why I get such a kick out of it, but I do.

Sioux City has the architecture, history and infrastructure to become a great city again. That's something Sioux Falls couldn't create with all the credit card and bank companies in the world locating there. Sioux Falls would still be a city of 100,000 people if it weren't for the cheap taxes.

[dmluvr]

good point guys--- that is true about the arena thrash. It'll be interesting to see what happens when WFA comes online.

[Peachtree]

I long for the day that Sioux City is able to show up Sioux Falls again. I don't know why I get such a kick out of it, but I do.

Sioux City has the architecture, history and infrastructure to become a great city again. That's something Sioux Falls couldn't create with all the credit card and bank companies in the world locating there. Sioux Falls would still be a city of 100,000 people if it weren't for the cheap taxes.

It's NOT a pretty city. There's nothing pretty about it. If it weren't for cheap taxes it would be a city of 72,000 like it was in 1970, about the time SD dropped their personal income tax. I don't know anybody that lives there anymore. I did know maybe a dozen or so people but they've all moved out to other states It is cannabalizing it's own state for a chunk of it's growth which isn't good. Des Moines would double in size if everybody in CR, Sioux City and Waterloo moved there but what kind of empire is it to reign over if the kingdom is empty?

[Twiztid1]

Keep in mind also lincon is going to build an arena similar sized to what sf wants...up to 12,000 seats I think. Lincoln has stated they can't compete with omaha but they intend to compete with cb, sc, and sf.

[Ingersoll1978]

I would think that SF and SC are far enough away from Lincoln that it won't be no consequences to those two cities for events.

[DMRyan]

Sioux Falls is 85 miles north of Sioux City and it sounds like these two cities have a long history of competing.

[Peachtree]

Lincoln will have a REALLY tough time getting events in the shadow of Omaha.

[CountOfMC]

Lincoln's also a metro of 300,000 roughly. I'm sure they could support a 10-12K arena. Keeping in mind.. Lincoln's core population is not that much smaller than Des Moines's.. maybe 100K. Of the 390,000 or so people in Polk County.. it's a pretty large area in terms of square miles - about the size of Douglas and Sarpy counties combined in Omaha. I'm not saying Lincoln can compete with Des Moines.. it's just not as small as some people make it out.. I think they could easily embrace a new arena.

[DMRyan]

Lincoln is defintely larger than most Omahans want to give it credit for. I didn't believe it when you first mentioned it, but there really is only about a 130,000 person difference in the core areas of the two metros. If Polk County has around 360,000 people in the the contigious metro (I looked it up) and Lincoln has around 235,000 in the contigious urban area, leaving a difference of about 125,000.

Seriously though, with Omaha and its new venue so close, I too think Lincoln will have troubles booking non-college related, but prominent events unless it somehow finds a niche. Des Moines' case is a different story. They're the hub of a broad territory of about 900,000, the true business and economic hub of the state that's not close to any other venues besides Hilton Colesium.

[CountOfMC]

Definitely. Des Moines can draw on tons of people within a 100 mile radius. Lincoln doesn't have that luxury. People from Omaha won't go to Lincoln for a concert/game.. why would they. All they can draw on is people within their immediate metro area.. which puts them in a precarious situation. You're right though.. it may be more about finding that niche that lets them prevail in the end.

And thanks for backing up those #'s.. I was guestimating.

[Ingersoll1978]

The Des Moines MSA is at 502,761 compared to Lincoln's 260,995. I think that is quite a difference.

[CountOfMC]

Des Moines's core population is not 502,000. That's a 5 county area. The core is closer to 360,000 like Ryan pointed out. Lincoln, on the other hand, has nearly all of its 260,000 people consolidated together in one central core...not including outlying rural counties. That's what I was getting at.

[DMRyan]

The only thing is that Lincoln doesn't have any outlying counties in its metro and it really doesn't have any suburbs either. What you see with the City of Lincoln is primarily what you get for the entire metro. That's how I got the ~235,000 number above for an urbanized area.

[DTO Luv]

I highly doubt Lincoln will get a new arena any time soon. They already have Pershing which isn't used that much and the Devany Center is only used for sports. Even though the Qwest Center is still bigger than venues in CB and Sioux City it is still competition. Some of the concerts the Qwest Center has are acts that might only draw between 5,000-8,000. If they curtain it in half it holds 12,500. And it's still profitable to have smaller concerts at the Qwest Center so a Lincoln arena would be pointless and even though the SC and SF arenas (not so much SF) would be smaller they are still close enough to Omaha that shows could go either way.

Lincoln is to close to Omaha to have it's own arena. Ames is probably going to lose out on alot of shows if Wells Fargo gets more shows. Did Vets lose alot of shows to the Hilton Coliseum?

[Ingersoll1978]

I'm sure Vets did lose a lot of shows when Hilton was built.

[omahadevelopmentman]

Lincoln wants I think 3 new arenas. Here is the story from the Omaha World-Herald:

Not 1, not 2, but 3 arenas possible in Lincoln

BY PAUL HAMMEL

WORLD-HERALD BUREAU

LINCOLN - The Capital City may soon become "Arena City."

Wednesday, a consultant recommended that Lincoln build a 10,000- to 12,000-seat arena and seek a private partner to construct a convention center. Both would make the city more competitive for state meetings and sports tournaments, the consultant said.

The report comes on the heels of a proposal to build an 8,000-seat arena at the Lancaster Events Center, on the east edge of Lincoln.

And, the Nebraska State Fair - for which voters approved $2 million a year in state lottery funding in November - is looking at building a convention center of its own.

The developments have some Lincoln leaders asking if the city can support so many projects.

"I would hope there would be some coordination and someone would take a look at the big picture: what we need at what priority, and can some of these needs collaborate," said Ray Stevens, chairman of the Lancaster County Board.

The study, released at a press conference on Wednesday by Conventions, Sports and Leisure of Minneapolis, was designed to look at the feasibility of a new arena/convention center to replace the 48-year-old, 6,500-seat Pershing Auditorium.

The two main conclusions:

? There is not enough demand for a stand-alone convention center in Lincoln like Omaha's Qwest Center, though a partnership with a hotel should be sought to build a 30,000-square-foot meeting facility.

? Pershing is outdated, and Lincoln needs a new arena of 10,000-12,000 seats to compete for concerts, keep state sports tournaments and maintain a high quality of life. Such a facility needs to be larger than Council Bluffs' 8,000-seat Mid-America Center, the consultant said.

The consultant identified five potential sites for the arena, which would cost upwards of $45 million.

A site on the north side of the Haymarket district - where the current downtown Post Office is located - had the most positive attributes, according to the consultant. It was closest to the University of Nebraska-Lincoln campus, which would be approached as a potential financial partner.

But several questions were raised at the press conference about whether all the planned Lincoln projects would be feasible, and why the consultant hadn't suggested partnering with the state fair, which has available land and now, money.

John Kaatz of Conventions, Sports and Leisure said the three projects would serve different purposes: the events center arena was focused on horse shows, while the state fair project would likely host local home, antique and garden shows.

A convention center and arena, he said, really needs to be downtown, near entertainment venues and hotels, to draw out-of-town visitors, which provide the largest economic impact.

Jim Fram, the executive director of the Lincoln Chamber of Commerce, said the recommendations were a first step. The next steps, he said, are an economic impact study and a closer look at the potential arena sites.

So with those possible 3 new arenas, there would be 6! arenas in the Lincoln area. (Pershing, the Coulseum (UNL) and the Bob Devany Center (UNL). Insane, I think so...[/b]

[DTO Luv]

Omaha has three arenas and 2 of them aren't performing that great. The Civic hasn't done anythind since the Qwest Center opened and the MAC has been hurting since the Qwest Center opened. The Civic will hopefully start doing better once the Flames arrive and that could mean more clouds over MAC attendance for the Lancers. Lincoln might need money to upgrade what it has but I doubt the people in Lincoln will vote to spend money on an arena when one of the most profitable ones in the country is right up the street.

[dmluvr]

What the hell is up with all these arenas?? Dang!! Lincoln is smoking crack if they think they need to have 3 arenas. Omaha nor des moines can't even handle 3 arenas. Des Moines will have 2 after WFA, and we know what will happen to vets in about 5 years. anyways. That's just ludicrous, I'm sure it won't happen.

Somebody asked if Hilton killed Vet's concert scene and yes it did. Back in it's glory days--Vets was a pretty hot spot for Central Iowa. Sporting and entertainment events was pletiful. However, over time, as Vets aged and with lack of updating or renovation, and with Hilton being built, left a big skeleton, aka vets in des moines. Once WFA opens, I'm sure dm will reclaim its status on the sports and entertainment leader of central iowa.

3 arenas---good lord, that's crazy.

[dmluvr]

p.s. don't cities realize that the markets are already becoming over saturized with arenas?? just look between Iowa and Nebraska--that's going to be some fierce competition.

[Peachtree]

All I know is that Sioux City's Tyson Event Center replaced Lincoln's Pershing Auditorium on the Iowa/Nebraska quick list at Ticketmaster. Pershing isn't much different than what Sioux City's old arena was like, looked damn near identical inside.