DART Central Station

[DMRyan]

I'm not sure if this is a conceptual rendering or the actual thing, but I found these renderings of the proposed transit hub while poking around on a local architecture company website. This project hasn't received any federal funding yet, so it may still be a ways off.

Looks very green, modern and "open air" for Iowa's climate.

Renderings courtesy of Substance Architecture.

[Mastermind]

I love it, very cool. Allows for a cohesive transportation center if Amtrak rolls into town. I believe the railroad pictured would be utilized by Amtrak.

Also if the Polk county courthouse ever gets built on the land east of this site, they might want to incorporate a larger parking facility for Amtrak passengers.

[Ingersoll1978]

That is very cool. I love the sloped "green" roof and the dart signage on the building. Very modern!

[SharpHawkeye]

Awesome design, but I see one major problem right away. No bike racks, anywhere! However, that open area below the big Dart logo building (some kind of ticket window, it looks like) would be perfect for some bike racks, as well as a few in the train boarding area in the lower left of the third rendering.

Also, I know these are early, early, early renderings but I hope they keep the possible downtown tram in mind...

[Mastermind]

The tram would be 2.5 blocks away on Walnut.

[wmjindsm]

Here is an article from this week's Des Moines Business Record.

DART's proposed transit hub waits for funding

Saturday, July 19, 2008


Substance Architecture was paid a stipend from DART to draft conceptual plans for the proposed transit hub that would be located along Cherry Street. Rendering submitted by Substance Architecture

Des Moines Area Regional Transit Authority (DART) confirmed last week that it is still waiting to secure enough funding for its proposed $15 million transit hub.

"We have yet to secure the funding to build the facility," said Michelle Orfield-Koranda, program development manager for DART. "However, it is a top priority of our capital plan."

Orfield-Koranda said the funding is beyond DART's control, though the agency anticipates it will come from multiple sources, including federal, state, and local governments and private organizations. However, the exact makeup of the funding is still undefined, Orfield-Koranda said.

The proposed transit hub would reopen Walnut Street to public traffic and shift DART bus loading to the new transit hub, proposed for a location along Cherry Street.

Substance Architecture Interiors Design drafted conceptual plans for a "green" facility that would incorporate a retail component and facilitate future modes of transportation such as rapid transit buses and electric light rail trains.

Todd Garner, the designer who worked on the project at Substance Architecture, said his firm has a good relationship with DART and drafted the concept for the proposed transit hub for a stipend. He said DART wanted a concept drafted so that it would have a visual component to accompany the proposal when it began requesting funding.

"The sole intent of this was to go out and to get funding," Garner said.

Substance received the request from DART late last summer and was able to complete the draft within two months. Garner said DART had a Kansas City company draft a traffic-flow diagram that illustrated how buses and traffic would flow in and out of the new hub. Substance used that diagram to create its concept.

"This location creates a gateway from the south, which Ninth Street lacks," Garner said. "(The Kansas City company) came up with the original diagram of how buses would flow, and when we were asked to draft a concept, we were told it had to flow like this."

But despite bus flow, Garner said the transit hub project would be put at a standstill if the plans to reopen Walnut Street fell through. He said DART is waiting to see what happens on Walnut to actually secure plans for the new proposed site.

"This needs to be built to get the buses so that they don't load on Walnut; so that the city can go ahead with the redesign plans on Walnut," Orfield-Koranda said.

Once DART ceases bus loading on Walnut and the street reopens for normal use, DART will not be held responsible for any of the costs associated with the restructuring of the Walnut Transit Mall, Orfield-Koranda said.

"Opening that back up was a big issue," Garner said.

Even though DART has used the few blocks of Walnut for years, Orfield-Koranda said the city of Des Moines will incur the costs associated with the plans for the restructuring and redesign.

Garner said DART would have to get federal funding through the Federal Transit Administration and pursue deals with Polk County, which owns the land that would house the transit hub.

"There's a whole lot of stuff that would have to fall into place," he said.

DART plans to issue requests for proposals (RFP) for other components of the project once the funding is secured.

"Once we find funding, we will do an RFP for the engineering and things like that," Orfield-Koranda said.

Furthermore, the location along Cherry Street will be confirmed once the funding is secured and the contracts are signed.

Orfield-Koranda could give no exact timelines for construction of the bus hub, saying "it depends on things that are beyond our control."

http://www.businessrecord.com/main.asp?FromHome=1&TypeID=1&ArticleID=6574&SectionID=5&SubSectionID=9

[DMRyan]

Sounds like this a long ways off still.

[Braniff]

This might sound somewhat tacky, but has anyone considered getting private money to sponsor the bus transfer center--or even part of the transit system--just as has been done with the Wells Fargo Arena and the Hy-Vee Hall? Perhaps Aviva could be one of the backers, perhaps Ruan or Bank of the West. (Perhaps Microsoft if and when )

[Mastermind]

the agency anticipates it will come from multiple sources, including federal, state, and local governments and private organizations.

It looks like this is already part of the plan. I would also say companies like Principal, ING, and Nationwide already support DART through their "employees ride free" contracts with DART.

[Braniff]

True, but how would the Microsoft or Aviva Transit Center sound to everyone?

[Mototail]

We don't need another corporation assuming the name of the hub...sponsorship and advertising is acceptable, but the time has come to name our public places after local area leaders...there has to be a balance somewhere...The project benefits all the companies as they don't have to build more parking garages that cost millions of dollars amongst other things.

[couch]

I agree, Mototail. We should revert the name Principal Park and come up with a more substantive name for the Wells Fargo Arena.

I also seem to disagree with the general consensus of this board, that Walnut Street will be better with car traffic.
I strongly disagree with the idea that car traffic increases retail business. Grand Avenue has almost no retail the whole length of it through downtown. The strip of 4th between Court and Walnut is popular particularly because it feels out of the way.

There are two reasons the Walnut Transit mall is so devoid:
1. The extant buildings provide no place for street level retail or restaurants. Even the Wallgreens storefront is away from the street, completely enclosed by a building.
2. No one rides the busses because of serious gaps in coverage, both physically and temporally.

Especially if the People Mover plan goes through, opening Walnut to car traffic seems incredibly short sighted.

[dogbo]

I also seem to disagree with the general consensus of this board, that Walnut Street will be better with car traffic.
I strongly disagree with the idea that car traffic increases retail business. Grand Avenue has almost no retail the whole length of it through downtown. The strip of 4th between Court and Walnut is popular particularly because it feels out of the way.

I don't think anyone is naive enough to simply conclude that if you add traffic, you increase retail viability. It is more about making Walnut more accessible. Take a walk down Walnut again and look at all the possibilities for ground level retail that remain underutilized . For example, Kaleidoscope was built for retail, restaurants, etc. at the street but other than Burger King, all you have is dentist, insurance agent, and a bunch of nondescript offices located in these bays. The deserted feeling you get on Walnut (especially at night) does not promote a safe feeling for people to get out and explore it. You must add activity (including vehicles) which promote a more lively, accessible area.

Grand Avenue has issues attracting retail in part because it is not pedestrian friendly first. It is "move cars in and out of downtown as fast as possible, first". You need wide sidewalks and narrow intersections to encourage and promote the type of foot traffic needed for strong retail areas. For this very reason, I have to assume the city has plans to eventually improve Grand Avenue as it runs through the East Village.

[Mastermind]

The city will be removing one lane of traffic, widening the sidewalk on Grand & Locust.



This is what Walnut will look like.

[couch]

Cars are allowed on Walnut in evenings and weekends and it does nothing to improve the perceived level of activity. It's going to be a slow process, because at the moment the only evening activity downtown is drinking. As more people move downtown (especially just south of the Western Gateway), Walnut will become THE corridor for pedestrian traffic between the Gateway and Court Ave, and eventually the EV. At the moment it is deserted at night because offices and 8-5 businesses are all that is there. Car traffic will not change that. Tram and pedestrian traffic WILL.

Mastermind, where did you get those renderings?

[Mastermind]

This thread has the link to the downtown Des Moines master plan.
http://www.absolutedsm.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3332

Well, the proximity of Walnut to Court will be a big reason why this will succeed (5pm-?) when implemented. Also people need a reason to go to Walnut after hours, what is down there right now to draw them in? Keep in mind that thousands of people cross Walnut everyday (8am-5pm) in the skywalk. The "Master plan" involves opening Walnut (and other streets) up to the skywalk traffic by creating visible connections such as what is being done at the final Nationwide building.

[dogbo]

Cars are allowed on Walnut in evenings and weekends and it does nothing to improve the perceived level of activity. It's going to be a slow process, because at the moment the only evening activity downtown is drinking. As more people move downtown (especially just south of the Western Gateway), Walnut will become THE corridor for pedestrian traffic between the Gateway and Court Ave, and eventually the EV. At the moment it is deserted at night because offices and 8-5 businesses are all that is there. Car traffic will not change that. Tram and pedestrian traffic WILL.

Mastermind, where did you get those renderings?

The bottomline: pedestrian malls (i.e...Walnut St) were a fad of the 1980's in many cities. They didn't work and now are being removed for more traditional city type transportation routes that have a much higher success rate.

[couch]

The bottomline: pedestrian malls (i.e...Walnut St) were a fad of the 1980's in many cities. They didn't work and now are being removed for more traditional city type transportation routes that have a much higher success rate.

What are you talking about? The Ped Mall in Iowa City is usually the busiest place at any given time, even when the university is not in session.

And pedestrian zones make up the densest, busiest, and most urban areas of most European cities.

Fad, bah!

[speeder]

The bottomline: pedestrian malls (i.e...Walnut St) were a fad of the 1980's in many cities. They didn't work and now are being removed for more traditional city type transportation routes that have a much higher success rate.

What are you talking about? The Ped Mall in Iowa City is usually the busiest place at any given time, even when the university is not in session.

And pedestrian zones make up the densest, busiest, and most urban areas of most European cities.

Fad, bah!

1. Iowa City is a niche; not every place in Des Moines, Iowa, or the US for that matter can suck-in the alcoholic urges of underage drinkers raised in the Chicago suburbs and bums like the ped-mall.

2. We are not Europe, if we were, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. That also doesn't make them experts in how to plan transit corridors/bus transfer stations in Des Moines.

[dogbo]

I will concede there are exceptions (i.e...Nicollet Mall in downtown Minneapolis would be another example) , but the fact is the Walnut Street Pedestrian Mall is a failure. Google "failure of pedestrian malls" -- first couple hits:

Mysterious Failure of Tampa's Pedestrian Mall
Failure of Auto Free Zones (pedestrian malls)

This concept hasn't worked more than it has worked. Do you have an example of a city comparable to Des Moines that has a successful ped transit mall? If so, pls share.

Walnut St has a plethera of empty store fronts awaiting tenants, but yet they don't come. It is time to scrap it and go with what works.

[QuadCityImages]

Rock Island also undid much of its Pedestrian Mall/entertainment district known as The District a few years ago, leaving only one block as pedestrian-only, and closing a few more blocks to vehicles at night and on weekends. There was a lot of discussion about the fad theory when they reverted, as you can imagine. We can all think of examples of Pedmalls that work, ie Madison or Denver, but it really seems like the stars have to align just perfect for these things to work like people want them to.

[Philby]

I think "Transit Malls" were a fad of the 1980's that rarely worked (Denver and Mpls being the 2 exceptions I'm familiar with).

Ped Malls can be the busiest places in many cities, but I don't know that a ped mall along Walnut will ever be popular unless the skywalks are removed, retail takes off downtown along Walnut (I'm talking pull people from JCTC takes off), or the harsh winters cease to exist.

One thing every major downtown has is an area (or multiple in the really large cities like NY/Chicago) where people just "are" at almost any time of the day or night. Des Moines doesn't have this currently, although Ct is getting close (not enough shopping to have daytime traffic, its got the bars/restaurants/housing) and EV has the best mix of retail/restaurants/bars/housing to facilitate consistent foot traffic.

Walnut has some components to pull this off, but it would require some pretty major changes to be successful (Mall with tenants comparable to JCTC in the Younkers building and/or along the 1st level of the buildings lining walnut, removal of the transit mall, better accessibility from the skywalk level, more parking)

[couch]

Google "failure of pedestrian malls" -- first couple hits:

Good point. Now Google "french military victories".

2. We are not Europe, if we were, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. That also doesn't make them experts in how to plan transit corridors/bus transfer stations in Des Moines.

You're right, we aren't Europe. But clearly you agree we need to find other cities to be examples.

Should we look to the vast expanses of suburbia? That clearly doesn't work. Should we look to the vast expanses of grid roads? That also doesn't work.

The cities that have proven their ability to function for centuries are European.


Now we are realizing the full extent of the removal of streetcar systems of the early 20th century. I would hate to see us, in four or five decades, lamenting the loss of Walnut as a pedestrian and transit way.

[Des Moineser]

The difference between the two is that the transit mall was a failure from the beginning while rail transit was a great success until the mass production of the automobile. We are now realizing cars are unsustainable.

When you think about it, transit malls don't make sense, if people need to get to their bus/train on-time, they likely aren't going to be shopping while waiting.

[couch]

When you think about it, transit malls don't make sense, if people need to get to their bus/train on-time, they likely aren't going to be shopping while waiting.

I don't thkn the point for a transit mall ever was simply for people to load the busses and trains, but rather that if enough people rode the bus there would be critical mass for retail around the area. The failure of the transit mall is simply a symptom of a larger transit failure.

[Des Moineser]

I understand what the point of them was. I'm saying the reason they failed is that regardless of the number of people using them, the people aren't there to shop in the first place.

[Mastermind]

DART is requesting money for the new transfer station. It appears as though they are keeping passenger rail and rapid transit in mind.

The hub will serve as a transfer station for DART's 23 local and express route. The facility will include retail space and provide connections to future passenger rail and rapid-transit services in downtown Des Moines.

[Mototail]

DART aims to grow bus service through I-JOBS

The transit hub is expected to create between 250 and 300 construction jobs and 12 permanent jobs, Miller said. Construction could begin by August and would take up to two years to complete.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/articl ... 0387/1001/

[Better Life dude]

DART aims to grow bus service through I-JOBS

The transit hub is expected to create between 250 and 300 construction jobs and 12 permanent jobs, Miller said. Construction could begin by August and would take up to two years to complete.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/articl ... 0387/1001/

Is this a done deal? The register article is dated April 18th and talks about PROPOSED Dart projects.

[Mototail]

I would think that it's a done deal since the I-Jobs got passed and the stimulus money is coming. Also since Culver is making a public display of the Chicago-Des Moines connection. As it's all a part of the Transit Mall.