Sioux City: Tyson Center has done little for downtown

[DMRyan]

That is exactly the location I would look for things to pop if there's any investment spurred by the Iowa Events Center. This would go a long ways towards making the IEC completely connected with the rest of downtown, including Court Avenue.

[DTO Luv]

KCPowercat

There is a BIG differance between the DT interstates in Omaha and KC. KC has I-70, I-35, I-670, and maybe (not sure) another one all convening together. Our only one I-480 doesn't take up as much DT as the interstates there would. So I can see why people in KC might think the Qwest Center is Kemper but living here and being in the area alot, I can tell you that's not the case here.

Trailer

Wrong again about Omaha. If you have seen the area along the river there is no wide suburban style road. Riverfront Dr., the road along the river and behind the Q, is a 2 lane road. One each way is hardly a wide suburban style road.

You're wrong again about the parking. Oh the front side of the Qwest Center there will naturally be parking becasue of it being the arena. But on the back side with the river there is one small parking lot mainly for those at the restaurant. The lot only takes up about a fifth of the whole area along the river all the way from Miller's Landing to the Heartland Park, so it's not a vast surface lot.

Plus the whole thing just opened this year so it hasn't been tested yet. The I know there was a sh*t load of people there for the Omaha birthday fireworks (over 100,000 people) but other than that there haven't been any festivals or concerts at the site. We'll have to wait and see how the area does. More things are in the works.

[KCPowercat]

KCPowercat

There is a BIG differance between the DT interstates in Omaha and KC. KC has I-70, I-35, I-670, and maybe (not sure) another one all convening together. Our only one I-480 doesn't take up as much DT as the interstates there would. So I can see why people in KC might think the Qwest Center is Kemper but living here and being in the area alot, I can tell you that's not the case here.

Actually there isn't a big difference. I'm talking about one interstate right now, I670 which makes the south leg of our downtown loop. That road which goes below grade of the rest of downtown has w/o a doubt cut off development from moving south and creates a disconnected feeling between the loop and the crossroads district. I fear that's the same thing that could happen in your case in Omaha. We are looking to fix it by capping the interstate with a park and roads but there is no way to cap that overpass. I'm not saying Qwest is in the same situation as Kemper, it is obviously better located than that, but I still think the interstate will be something you guys will curse in the future....it creates a dead zone and a physical and mental barrier between the arena and the normal downtown grid. I hope I'm wrong but like I said, we have a great example of it right here...you can also see it in STL and many other cities.

[DTO Luv]

Again I can see what your saying but it's still wrong. I will concede that in certain areas that the interstate can be "road block" like by the Civic. Once you get across the back of the old arena the area starts to look like you might not want to stick around. The Qwest Center is totally differant. There is a hotel right on the north of I-480 and there is ususally a steady flow of people from the hotel down 10th St. to the Old Market and parks. And just south of I-480 is the Swanson plan site and only God knows what that'll be. The Omaha paper has said developers are considering things from new office skyscrapers, to high rise residences, and a shopping center. I know many people on the Omaha site, myself included, want to see a movie theatre be part of the project.

Once this is done I don't think people will be worried about being blocked by a road 80' above their heads.

[Ingersoll1978]

I really doubt any new highrise office buildings will be coming to that site any time soon. With a 28.7% vacancy rate in the Omaha CBD (Winter 2004), it wouldn't make sense to build a new office building unless it was owner occupied. I wouldn't think a theatre would be a good option unless it was much closer to the Old Market and the residential units that surround it. It will be interesting to see what does build in that area.

[KCPowercat]

Again I can see what your saying but it's still wrong. I will concede that in certain areas that the interstate can be "road block" like by the Civic. Once you get across the back of the old arena the area starts to look like you might not want to stick around. The Qwest Center is totally differant. There is a hotel right on the north of I-480 and there is ususally a steady flow of people from the hotel down 10th St. to the Old Market and parks. And just south of I-480 is the Swanson plan site and only God knows what that'll be. The Omaha paper has said developers are considering things from new office skyscrapers, to high rise residences, and a shopping center. I know many people on the Omaha site, myself included, want to see a movie theatre be part of the project.

Once this is done I don't think people will be worried about being blocked by a road 80' above their heads.

I hope you are right. Just a lot of examples of highways dividing vibrant areas of cities.

[DTO Luv]

I really doubt any new highrise office buildings will be coming to that site any time soon. With a 28.7% vacancy rate in the Omaha CBD (Winter 2004), it wouldn't make sense to build a new office building unless it was owner occupied. I wouldn't think a theatre would be a good option unless it was much closer to the Old Market and the residential units that surround it. It will be interesting to see what does build in that area.

As far as the office towers go, that was something the World Herald said. And not everything fun to do DT has to be in the Old Market. We need to start spreading things like that around so the whole DT area is vinrant. What if everything to do in DT Chicago was in Grant Park?

[Ingersoll1978]

Considering Grant Park is a PARK, it wouldn't make sense to have everything fun in Downtown Chicago there. It would probably take up I just think they should put some of these proposed ideas more towords the Old Market to make it a stronger, balanced entertainment district. I think if theatres and other things are built, they should be in this area. It's truely the pulse of Downtown Omaha. If it's undermined by other areas, I think it's really going to take a toll on the businesses there.

[DTO Luv]

The Old Market is venrerable enough to withstand some other competition in DT. Not everything can be in the OM. If we concentrate to much on that then the other areas of DT will start to suffer. There's much more to DT than the Gene Leahy Mall and the OM. The area is becoming big enough to support at least another OM type place and smaller pockets of recreation/retaill/dining.

[trailer]

The Old Market is venrerable enough to withstand some other competition in DT.

Creating a stronger downtown core doesn't really diminish whatever is happening in the Old Market. Why not have 10 vibrant downtown sub-neighborhoods instead of just one touristy neighborhood? Besides, I wouldn't quite call the Old Market the end-all, be-all to dining and entertainment. I would think there's room for at least a popular live music club in downtown Omaha.

[DTO Luv]

I have wondered why there isn't a big or popular live music place to play in DT. Almost every place has live acoustic music but no real place dedicated to local rock/whatever. There used to be a place on Farnam St. like that but I think it's a restaurant now. Saddle Creek records is considering a DTO or Midtown Omaha location. I'm not into indie music but I guess that would be cool.

Do you really think the OM is touristy? It's not nearly as touristy as Crown Center or the Plaza. I am down in the OM alot so I probably see it differantly than other people would.

[Des Moineser]

Personally, I don't find anything 'touristy' about Omaha, though I don't go there much... Fill me in on local stuffs.

[DMRyan]

The zoo, College World Series, Strategic Air Command Museum, Nebraska Furniture Mart, Old Market.

Don't think of it as a resort-type touristy place, but it makes a nice weekend getaway type of place and I would say they're a notch above DSM in terms of attractions...it pains me to admit that.

[Des Moineser]

Nebraska Furniture Mart!? Anyhow, Des Moines really needs to find a new loation for the zoo so they can build a much larger one. It's too bad they couldn't hook the zoo in the Ape thing.

[DMRyan]

We do have a few things they don't have, a bonafied Science Center, Living History Farms and an amusement park.

It may be easy to brush off Nebraska Furniture Mart, but it's quite a regional draw similar to the way Cabela's or Bass Pro serves the outdoor/neck crowd.

[Des Moineser]

Ryan, you just made think of something. Because Omaha has no amusement park, Adventureland need to seriously figure out a way expand their park just in case the worst happens and Omaha builds a better theme park. How much land is available around the park?

[Ingersoll1978]

There was supposed to be an amusement park built first north of downtown Omaha, then in Council Bluffs. Both have failed. I do agree that Adventureland needs to get its act together.

[Peachtree]

The zoo, College World Series, Strategic Air Command Museum, Nebraska Furniture Mart, Old Market.

Don't think of it as a resort-type touristy place, but it makes a nice weekend getaway type of place and I would say they're a notch above DSM in terms of attractions...it pains me to admit that.

Zoo... yes, a bonafied attraction. As good as it is though, I think it could still be a little cleaner & nicer in some parts but overall, good.

College WS... A huge money maker for hotels,restaurants but there's nothing to say that Omaha will always always have it. Lot of people say it should be a traveling event, like a Final 4 is for basketball and even let major league stadiums bid on it. I don't care either way whether it stays or travels to OKC, San Antonio or Little Dork, Arkansas...

SAC Museum... fine for the ex pilots, Air Force and plane heads but kids will be bored to tears.

Neb Furn Mart... what's the attraction? I guess in the midwest it's something exciting. IT'S FURNITURE! (yawn) (crickets)

Old Market... it's best days are behind it. It may see more development, yada yada yada but it's nothing like it was 20-30 years ago.

[Des Moineser]

Just because Ryan thinks it's an attraction doesn't mean the rest of us Midwesterners think it's an attraction. And we don't.

[DMRyan]

Pity us rubes in the midwest.

What I was trying to get across is that Omaha has some "destinations" that are uniquely Omaha and that give people a reason to go there. Sure you can find furniture in any city, but Omaha has the largest furniture store around. One that is very well known and been in business for some time. If you go to NFM, I'm more than sure you'll see plenty of Iowa and South Dakota plates in that parking lot...many with Polk County plates.

Again, I'm not strictly talking places where you load up the kids and bring them out for a vacation, but things that lure people from outside of the immediate area. This is where most of the average tourist dollars of your average midwest city likely come from. I'm not with the Omaha Visitor's Bureau, but I do think they have us slightly beat in big name attractions/things to do.

[Ingersoll1978]

The SAC Museum isn't anything exciting. I've been dragged to that so many times as a kid when it was in Bellevue (by my grandpa). Now its half way between Lincoln and Omaha. I can see it being exciting if your into that, but it's more of a specialized museum.

The only thing I really seeing Omaha having a leg up on Des Moines for attractions is the zoo. It is a great zoo, but how many times do you go to the zoo???

They have the College World Series, but we have the #4 Best Arts Festival and the Iowa State Fair (which has over a million in attendance).

NFM isn't a great furniture store. It's the same stuff you can get at homemakers(which I believe is owned by NFM) or any other furniture store. It just happens to be the largest furniture store.

[DMRyan]

Strike the SAC Museum and replace it with the Western Heritage Museum, or Lewis & Clark Center. Laurtizen Gardens is nice too. The point I'm trying to make isn't about the specifics of each attraction, but that there seems to be more attractions that would draw travelers to Omaha then many people think.

[Des Moineser]

Rube's is an attraction in Des Moines, you buy and grill your own steaks at the establishment, get when it's 10 below and snowing.

[Peachtree]

Down here in Atlanta we're trying to suck the tourists in with a new $200M, 450Ksf, 5 million gallon aquarium with 50,000 aquatic creatures. Exhibits like a walk through shark tank and a giant squid should pull the rubes in off the highway left and right.

[Peachtree]

Pity us rubes in the midwest.

Only if I see you camping in NFM's parking lot....

[Ingersoll1978]

Des Moines and Omaha have great attractions. I don't think there is any doubts about that. I think some of the great attractions in Des Moines don't get the credit they deserve, including the State Historical Building, Salisbury House, the State Capitol, and Blank Park Zoo.

[Des Moineser]

Thrash, I don't need to go Atlanta to see some sharks.

[dmluvr]

So yeah, that Tyson events center in sioux city is awesome....and...and stuff.

I don't know think either dm or omaha should be talking any smack towards each other when it comes to 'attractions' Omaha does have the leg on their Zoo, really, it's a pretty damn nice zoo, even better than alot of major cities zoos. Other than that, pretty much the same. Sure they have a few more things here and there, but we also got our share of things here or there. I've mentioned this before on some other thread. but I remember waiting tables back in the day(this is like 97/98 keep in mind) and I remember in the summertime waiting on people from omaha and ne. in general all the time that would come to dm to vacation for the weekend. I think it's natural to get away for a weekend to another city. I would say dm visits omaha quite a bit and vice versa!

[DTO Luv]

Personally, I don't find anything 'touristy' about Omaha, though I don't go there much... Fill me in on local stuffs.

To sepond to some of the comments about Omaha since you don't know it that well...

The Zoo
Here are some pictures I took of it a few says ago. http://eomaha.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1019 We have the world's largest geodesic dome that covers the Desert Dome. We have the largest cat complex in North America. I think the Lied Jungle is one of, if not, the largest indoor jungles in the world. I don't think the aquarium has any size claims but it is a pretty cool place. They just built a big gorilla house that's still under construction. There building some sort of replica of a giant tree. It has an average attendance of 1.7 milliom visitors a year.

Rosenblatt/College World Series
This is Omaha's main event. It attracts close to 250,000 people for 10 days a year and it's impossible to get a hotel in Omaha. The news channels were saying people had to stay as far away as Lincoln (60 miles from stadium) and Des Moines. So the CWS does you guys some good too.

Rosenblatt seats around 25-26,000 people and is the largest stadium in the minor leagues. It's probably one of the most famous baseball stadiums too. It's just below Wrigley, Fenway, Yankee Stadium fame. And despite what someone said the CWS won't leave Omaha any time soon or later. We have hosted the games for over 50 years and the slogan "The Road to Omaha" is to famous to change. The only chance it has of moving is if they build a stadium in DTO and it's moved down there, which isn't likely either.

Nebraska Furniture Mart.

It it the largest furniture store in the country, so I guess it has that appeal but it's old owner is why the store is so dear to many Omahan's. Rose Blumpkin, or Mrs. B as she was called, started the store a long time ago after immigrating here. She was a very nice and compassionate woman. My Great-Grandmother told me Mrs. B would walk around her store and if there was a family there that didn't have enough money she would cut the price down to whatever they could afford. This was commonplace. I remember meeting her when I was little with my brother. She seemed nice. So to more people there is more to go to NFM for than just furniture.

The SAC Museum

I like it well enough. It probably does cater to a more select group but even if your not a big aviation fan they have some pretty cool stuff. The other museums worth seeing are the Joslyn and Durham Western Heritage Museum. Both are DT. The Joslyn is the main one that gets lots of traveling exhibits. (Smithsonian exhibits and Dale Chiluly to name a few) Admission is free on Saturday mornings until Noon. I don't know much about the Drurham Museum because I haven't been there that much but it is in a beatiful Art Deco building that was once Omaha's main train station.

The lack of amusement park.

Des Moines does win this. Everyone on Omaha wishes we had an amusement park. Driving to Des Moines or KC gets old after a while. If we do get one it will probably go in between Omaha and Lincoln, but I prefer a north Omaha site.

The Old Market/Downtown Omaha.

Like I said before, the OM has it's touristy parts, but many people in Omaha don't even know how extensive the OM is. To most people street level at 11th and Harney is all there is to the OM. But there are so many things in basements and upper stories of buildings that it would take a day or two to see it all.

Downtown in general is a great spot to visit. It beats Downtown Des Moines and Downtown Kansas City in terms of vitality and appeal. (Appeal is a bit biased )Many people on these sites are architecture fans so it provides a great photo opp. We have many differant styles of buildings that are worth seeing. Especially the older ones.

Overall Omaha isn't touristy like Orlando or Chicago (DM and KC aren't either) but there are plenty of unique Omaha things that are worth visiting.

[DMRyan]

A very honest summary DTO Luv. The only comment I have is in regards to architecture. Omaha has beautiful old architecture, but before FNC, the Qwest Center and the performing arts center was built, Omaha had a pretty stale 60's-70's "plains architecture" vibe with much of its modern stuff. I do think DSM takes the cake with modern architecture that has been somewhat bold.

As in every downtown, there are some pretty bland areas of downtown Omaha devoid of street life too, but Omaha can compensate for this by having a truly vibrant part of downtown.