Downtown Homeless Discussion

[musichase]

Where will all the homeless living along the river go?

[dogbo]

misichase wrote:

Where will all the homeless living along the river go?

Here's your answer....

D.M. targets homeless camps
People living near trails would be relocated
City officials to relocate those living near trails

By JASON CLAYWORTH
REGISTER STAFF WRITER
Copyright 2006, Des Moines Register and Tribune Company


January 20, 2006



Des Moines city leaders want to remove dozens of makeshift homeless camps that can be seen by users of new recreational trails near downtown.

Officials emphasize they will first target the homemade huts that have been abandoned, then work with homeless advocates to relocate people who live in other camps.

It is unclear how many people the proposal would affect. Details of the plan will be discussed at a private meeting today. The meeting will include city officials and representatives from two nonprofit groups that work with Polk County's estimated 5,000 homeless people.

"We want to approach this with compassion for the people who are there," acting City Manager Rick Clark said Thursday. "What has happened, I think, is that a lot of these areas weren't very visible, but now we've got trails, and I think the potential for conflict is greater."

The targeted campsites are largely in the Gray's Lake and Meredith Trail areas, where roughly $9 million has been spent on improvements in the past five years. Some of the trails now overlook homeless camps that have cropped up regularly along the Raccoon River for several years.

The city has traditionally employed a hands-off approach unless the campers cause trouble. Clark said the city has fielded recent complaints but declined to identify the individuals or groups that asked for the cleanup.

Police Capt. Michael Shay said he cannot recall any assaults on the downtown trails that could be attributed to the homeless, "but those trails haven't been there very long."

Sen. Matt McCoy, a Des Moines Democrat and vice president of Downtown Community Alliance, a nonprofit group composed of business leaders, said the alliance has lodged no formal complaints against the camps.

"It's the city's initiative, and I'll just leave it at that," McCoy said.

Meredith Corp.'s $2 million donation in 2004 linked Gray's Lake Park with downtown. The trail opened last fall with lights and emergency call boxes used to alert police in emergencies.

Trail user John Sarasio of Des Moines called the camps "waterfront property that pays no taxes." He said the city won't easily reconcile beautification efforts with empathy for the poor.

"It's a hard one," he said. "They're either here or they go someplace else."

Some camps have popped up in the suburbs in the past few years. Advocates fear the city's planned action will push more homeless away from shelters and other services.

"It's always a concern about where homeless people are going to stay," said Mike Peterson, an outreach worker for Iowa Homeless Youth Centers.

Peterson's group has agreed to work with the city to identify vacant camps that will be targeted for destruction.

Police Chief William McCarthy said any concern on the part of trail users is a matter of false perception rather than real threats to personal safety.

He said no homeless person will be forced to move until a reasonable solution is agreed on by the city and advocates.

Glenn Orr, 23, lives in one of the camps and plans to provide input on the best way to move them. Orr has been without a permanent home since he was 18 years old.

"We're only down here because we literally have nowhere else to go," he said Thursday.

Peterson believes the city needs a good alternative. Seattle, for example, has what is called "Tent City," a supervised area for about 100 homeless people who can stay up to 90 days.

"When you're talking about pushing people out from where they live, you need to have an alternative place for them to go," he said.

City Councilwoman Christine Hensley dislikes the tent idea. She favors working with homeless advocates to provide more shelters.

"Personally, the tent idea is not the image I want for Des Moines," she said.

Howard Matalba, a homeless-outreach worker with Iowa Homeless Youth Centers, noted that the riverfront area is already an unofficial "tent city."

An established temporary site with running water would help many homeless people get on their feet and be more sanitary, he said.

People who live in the camps fashion tents and huts out of scrap wood, metal and discarded clothing. Some of the camps have furniture, kerosene stoves and fences to keep out unwanted visitors.

Bill Throckmorton, marketing manager for Bike World Iowa, frequently rides the downtown trails and has contact with thousands of riders every year. He doesn't believe there's a fear of the homeless on the part of trail users.

"Quite honestly, I've never heard this issue even mentioned," he said.

Mayor Frank Cownie said it's not in the city's best interest to force homeless people out of the camps unless officials provide solutions to help them.

"This is not an easy issue," he said.

Jean Brown, executive director of Churches United Shelter, 205 15th St., said her group will help the city find a solution.

Brown noted, however, that the area's shelters are already overcrowded, which she believes has contributed to more camps. She called the city's efforts "intelligent and compassionate."

"I really think they're doing the best they can to do the right thing and not bully people," Brown said.

[speeder]

Just two quick thoughts...

1) This is probably naive of me but when I think of homeless people, I don't initially jump to thoughts of assault. Why is it that some police officers immediately go down the path of worst case scenario? And why are they usually the officers in charge of public relations? It is one thing to prepare and train; it is another to immediately instigate fearful thoughts to provide assurance to the masses that you are doing a good job. These homeless people have fences to keep unwanted visitors out of their makeshift shacks; I’m not so sure that venturing out to assault people on bikes is in their repertoire.

2) As far as development of River Point goes: I would bet that some percentage of property tax collected makes its way into the coffers of various homeless shelters, especially since many are probably tax exempt. Theoretically, if this area is improved thought structural development, tax revenues from the property as it now sits will increase, which means and increased tax base, which could lead to more funding for wonderful social programs. In my opinion, the homeless people/drifters, those concerned with their welfare, law enforcement, and homeless shelters/services in Des Moines should all be in favor of moving them, or having the move, in order to develop the property; maybe get some preemptive earmarks on increased revenue also.

[mistertwister]

Speeder. There are plenty of services already available to help these people. Sure they could always use a little more in thier budget, but the point is, the homeless living by the river are living there by choice, and not necessity.

Secondly, I think I would take the opinion of a police officer who deals with the homeless down ther over yours anyday. Mostly because the homeless living by the river are either chemically dependent or mentally impaired, both conditions lead to a high % of violent behavior.

No one is so cold as to not feel some compassion or concern or the living conditions of the homeless, but not everyone is blinded by that compassion to the reality of thier lives. Developement will come, they will be pushed out of thier shacks and thier shacks will be torn down. They will eventually find some other area of the city to set up in, probably to the east. Life will go on.

[speeder]

Okay, mistertwister, glad to read some conservative leaning thoughts out there. Notice I wrote wonderful social programs, didn't mean that literally, more sarcastically really. I don’t think homeless people have the right to be squatters and I also agree that there are plenty of opportunities available for those who wish to improve their lives to do so. Being a 23 year old man and homeless, since you were 18, not by choice, with no place else to go…. come on, seriously?

I also agree about the "reality of their lives" bit but I was making an attempt to interweave the reality of the socialist approach we, as publicized at least, seem to have towards dealing with the homeless, be they by choice or not. I hope this development goes through, and not to better fund social programs with the increased tax revenue, that should go directly back into paying off the loss for whatever tax abatement the city of Des Moines is using for bait these days; anything beyond the payment of those back-taxes should go directly into the pocket of whomever takes the risk of developing the land. You are right, life will go on, those people will either pick themselves up or carry on as they are somewhere else.

I don’t know what to say about the cop thing. I guess I would say, if you are a Des Moines Police Officer, and on public relations duty, or just speaking to a reporter, you might think twice about throwing out just the topic of ‘assault by homeless people’ in a sensitive development area that the city is trying to market for future residential and commercial, not to mention an recreational area that the city and local corporation(s) has spent a lot of good money on beautifying; especially when no assaults have been reported. Like I said, its one thing to prepare to deal with a potential problem, it is another to instigate certain thoughts so you look like you are doing your job well.

[Des Moineser]

This means more housing projects will end up being built...

[hawk61401]

Des Moines Capt. Michael Shay said he cannot recall any assaults on the downtown trails that could be attributed to the homeless, "but those trails haven't been there very long." The Captain is implying that assaults will be attributed to the homeless.

The Captain needs to get out of his cruiser more often. He needs to stop spreading disinformation about the homeless. If the Captain is ignorant about the homeless, what the hell is he ignorant about? There were 105 attacks on the homeless in 2004 including 25 deaths. Just a week ago teens beat a homeless man to death with baseball bats in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. The majority of these attackers are young men between the ages of 16 and 25.

Many if not most of the assaults and murders of the homeless go unreported. The homeless don't report them and many people don't care about a faceless, no-name, discarded human being.

[Des Moineser]

While most of the homeless are there by a maybe 90% choice - 10% circumstance situation, some are there because they are out of their minds. Go downtown on Sundays or Saturdays (or any day I guess) and you will find a considerable number of them talking to themselves and flashing Nazi salutes. The assaults are attributed to homeless persons, because they make up a large chunk of assaults. Many of those people fly off the handle at the snap of a finger and beat people. Homelessness for most is a choice, and to them assaults can be attributed to robberies and muggings those 'choicers' pull off because they don't want to find work. If they did, jobs are readily available in this market for them.
Summary: Capt. Shay is right to attribute assaults to homeless people.

[Janetgia]

"but those trails haven't been there very long." The Captain is implying that assaults will be attributed to the homeless.

I don't think that's what he's implying. I think he's saying rather directly that it's too soon to tell whether assaults committed by the homeless will be a problem. Also - it's hard to criticize a police officer for commenting on potential assaults, when the whole reason you'd interview them for this story in the first place would be to get the public safety perspective.

[icia]

Maybe this has already been stated, but aren't there more assaults on homeless people than by homeless people?

[dogbo]

icia wrote:

Maybe this has already been stated, but aren't there more assaults on homeless people than by homeless people?

What makes you think that? Are you basing this on the fact there's currently a big national news story where some kids beat up a homeless man? I think the reason it is such big news is it is shocking to hear/see this. It isn't everyday you read or hear about homeless being assaulted.

I'm sure there are a lot of attacks of homeless by homeless, but I'd be surprised that they are common victim's of assault by non-homeless. If you have something that states otherwise, I'd be interested in hearing it.

[icia]

Are there any statsitcs on how many assaults have been committed in Des Moines by homeless people?

[dogbo]

According to the research found in the book, A Nation In Denial, by Alice Baum and Donald Burnes at least 65-85% of all homeless adults suffer from chronic alcoholism, drug addiction, mental illness, or some combination of the three, often complicated by serious medical problems…. Forty to fifty percent of these individuals are “dually diagnosed” - suffering from addiction to alcohol and/or drugs, as well.” http://www.agrm.org/steps.html

Knowing this, my conclusions are:

* it is not wise for them to remain in an area (i.e. Riverpoint) where the population is beginning to encroach on them

* a population with a 65-85% illness rate of this type are most likely the attackers and not the attackees.

[icia]

I agree they shouldn't be in the Riverpoint area. They should be in shelters receiving treatment for illness and addiction. But I'm still not conviced that the homeless are a major threat to the safety of others.