Nollen Plaza Makeover?

[Ingersoll1978]

From Cityview:

Up Front 12.15

Nollen Plaza makeover?

Matt McCoy?s talking about giving Nollen Plaza a makeover. He?s talking about livening up the place, like David Kruidenier did with Gray?s Lake.

Due to mechanical problems, the downtown landmark?s water fountain no longer works. The Civic Center of Greater Des Moines, Downtown Community Alliance and the city spent $30,000 to keep the fountain running last year, but it?s beyond repair. The Downtown Community Alliance has already contracted with Project for Public Spaces, a New York City urban planning firm, to brainstorm ideas for reinventing the space with the major downtown stakeholders. The DCA is also talking to the people who built it, getting their ideas for the future of the park. The discussion yielded suggestions that range from doable now (installing movable tables and chairs, planting flowers and hosting live music events that serve adult beverages) to doable after a fund-raising campaign. Other ideas discussed were getting Splash, a nearby seafood restaurant, to set up outdoor tables and chairs in the plaza and bringing a restaurant to the ground floor of adjacent Capital Square.

?There was no shortage of ideas,? says McCoy, vice president of community development for the DCA and a state senator. ?We do have a shortage of money.?

However, McCoy is optimistic. ?Every time this community has been challenged to do something like this, they?ve always risen to the challenge,? he says.

McCoy sees 2005 as a planning year, and the project taking shape in 2006-07.

?We want to get people excited about the space again,? he says.

Very goods ideas. I hope they keep a fountain in the complex. I'd love to see some jumping fountains somewhere.

[DMRyan]

There's supposed to be jumping fountains on the riverfront plaza, so that will be taken care of.

I'm glad this is finally being addressed by city leaders because it's much needed. They built this thing all wrong IMO. There's way too much concrete and not enough usable space. Luckily, it's not in that bad of shape and would be relatively easy to get back up to snuff. I like the shady tree canopy on the south side of Nollen Plaza, but it's almost too shady and unusable anymore. They might need to chop a few trees out now that everything has filled in.

[Ingersoll1978]

This park really isn't used much. I did see a couple doing it there along the wall in full view. LOL I agree with the assessment that it is too much concrete, kinda like the Civic Center. They go hand and hand.

Thanks for the input about the fountains, I love those. I'm sure dsmluvr's kid will love them too!

[dmluvr]

how funny ingersoll, as a matter of fact, my son and I spend a great deal of time on the plaza during the summer, he loves it there!!!! He's a big fan of water and the fountains. your darn good buddy!!

I really hope as well they take care of this, as I'm sure they will. This is a gem downtown, and would be so great for the city to redo this. I also agree, there's too much concrete downthere. hopefully they do something neat with it. Maybe some cool tiles in the pool part that could be lit up at night time. it could make for a neat reflection in the pool.

can never go wrong with the night time lighted water fountains!!

[Young DSM Social Club]

I have heard from a couple of people that David Kruidienier (spelling?) basically has veto power over all of Nollen Plaza b/c he donated money back when it was built and as part of that he gained control.

I have no idea if this is true, but what I was told was awhile back that plans were made to make the tree area more user-friendly and he flat-out said no and that was the end of it.

I have no idea if this is true, but if anyone is willing to investigate, I'd love to know the truth!

[DSM celebutante]

Yes someone please to do. Because if that is true that is outrageous. I think it would be cool if it was multicolored at night or changed colors the fountain that is. They need to work on the shady areas all the homeless that hangout there isnt exaclty welcoming. Nollen Plaza could be very cool. I nice resturant on the first floor would be cool with table patio seating in just one small section. Who is McCoy??

[Ingersoll1978]

Sounds like this is rolling along. Now when they are going to release the plans to the public?

From KCCI:

Nollen Plaza To Undergo Renovation
City Needs Volunteers This Saturday

POSTED: 4:22 pm CDT July 6, 2005
UPDATED: 4:33 pm CDT July 6, 2005

DES MOINES, Iowa -- Hundreds of people downtown take a break from work each day to enjoy the outdoors at Nollen Plaza.

Now the plaza is getting a facelift.

Doug Hoerr, a Chicago landscape architect, met with city leaders Wednesday, and presented five redesign plans for Nollen Plaza.

Pam Harmon works downtown and meets her grandchildren at the plaza for lunch.

"In essence, it's our Central Park," Harmon said.

Harmon and others agree that the Des Moines midday meeting place needs improvements.

Crews are now painting the plaza's benches, as the city is in the process of redesigning the park. The city hopes to begin construction next spring.

The renovation includes demolishing a 25-year-old fountain that has been called too expensive to operate.

A wall that separates the park into two spaces will also come down.

Sam Soda has sold sandwiches here for 12 years. He remembers when there were 24 vendors on the plaza, now there are four.

The city is looking for volunteers to help with planting and mulching around the trees at 10 a.m. on Saturday. The effort is called "Can You Dig It," and participants get a free lunch in return.

[iadm]

Don't know if any private person has veto power over what goes on Nollen Plaza but..... I think there is a long-term lease between the city and the civic center for Nollen Plaza which goes back to the the 1970's when money was being raised for the Civic Center.

[DMRyan]

Wow, if this starts by next spring I'll be surprised. They better do some major corporate fundraising.

It'll be sad to see the fountain go, but it sounds like it will be replaced with a new lighted water feature anyway. They have to do something with the south side of Nollen Plaza too. I've never seen anyone beside homeless people sleeping there actually using the south end of the Plaza for anything. Hopefully the redesign will be much more interactive and welcoming than the current form.

[dmluvr]

does anyone have any renderings or anything?? It would be great to see. If anyone can post something that would be great.

No question Nollen Plaza needed something, I just hope the new waterfountain is done right w/ supreme stellar a** lighting.

[dogbo]

I really like the idea mentioned about bringing in a restaurant on the ground floor of Capital Square (the old Embassy Club space). It would be a great place to have an outdoor patio to incorporate in with the park setting./new fountain. If they placed it on the south eastern corner of the building, they could wrap it around so part if it faced 4th street. That would be great exposure and add some additional excitement to this already interesting street (i.e. Mews, Royal Mile, Trattoria, etc. ) and give it good visibility.

[DMRyan]

That's a good idea dogbo.

One thing is for sure, it will be landscaped to the nines with Douglas Hoerr as the project landscape architect. I'm really interested in seeing how he'll break up the concrete feel of the Plaza.

[NOG]

One thing is for sure, it will be landscaped to the nines with Douglas Hoerr as the project landscape architect. I'm really interested in seeing how he'll break up the concrete feel of the Plaza.

After seeing what has been done with Fluer Drive, I am really excited to see what he has in store for Nollen Plaza. I am a little bummed about losing the current fountain though. Its to bad they couldn't fix it.

[Ingersoll1978]

Didn't the metal light structures surrounding the fountain used to change colors? I remember being told that, but have never seen it.

About the fountain, I like it as well...but I think a large jumping fountain would be just as cool and more fun for the "kiddies". This park should be done very well so its not overlooked when Gateway West Park opens.

[Young DSM Social Club]

I think this could be a very first-rate project.

The area with the trees is totally useless right now ... a redesign that utilitizes the whole space would be great.

The idea of tying 4th St. into this with the restaurant is fabulous. You should e-mail Matt McCoy and those involved about it --- seriously. I think they would possibly incorporate the input.

I am confused how Splash could have seating across the street from where it is. I guess it could do it, just seems odd.

Anyone ever hear that David K. actually had veto power on making changes to the park? That is what I was told and that is why the area with the trees was never changed to something more useful. No clue if true or not, of course (it was a higher up DSM person who passed along this info, however, to a friend of mine).

[dogbo]

The idea of tying 4th St. into this with the restaurant is fabulous. You should e-mail Matt McCoy and those involved about it --- seriously. I think they would possibly incorporate the input.

Done! I'll let you all know if/what I hear back.

[dogbo]

Heard back from Matt McCoy. Here's his response (and my original email to him):

Chris,

Thanks for your comments. I agree with you that it makes sense to have any new restaurant that is added face 4th street. I frankly think you will likely see several retail establishments working out of that large space.

In the meantime, we have some great places to eat and drink along Fourth street. I love the Lift and Java Joes.

It matters that you care!

Matt

Matt McCoy
Downtown Community Alliance
Ph. 515.245.2959




-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 3:47 PM
To: Matt McCoy
Subject: Nollen Plaza


Hello Sen McCoy,

I've read with great interest your involvement in the project to beautify and update Nollen Plaza. I was especially interested in hearing about the possible plans to put a restaurant in the lower level of Capital Square. I think this is a terrific idea and sincerely hope a developer is found that would be willing to take this project on. I can just imagine a great bar/restaurant patio that extents and looks out over the park and new fountain. Although I don't have the expertise or means to take on a project like this myself, I would like to offer a suggestion that you may want to forward to potential suitors for this project.

As you probably know, 4th St has become a little hub of excitement . There's the old standbys like Java Joes and Tratorria. But within the last few years additions like Royal Mile, The Lift, and The Mews have contributed to making this a dynamic little piece of downtown. My suggestion for anyone putting a restaurant in Capital Square:

* be sure to have outside seating/patio
* place the restaurant on the southeast corner so it can wrap around the building and be visible from 4th street. What a great addition to 4th street this would be to see that now dead area of the street come alive and what a benefit for the new restaurant to be visible by the throngs of people who now frequent the businesses on 4th St (and also Court Ave). Additionally, this would make it visible from the skywalk directly across the street.

I don't have a financial stake in this idea, just a sincere interest in seeing downtown Des Moines continue to grow. I brought this idea up on the forum on a Des Moines development website I frequent: http://www.absolutedsm.com and received good feedback and a suggestions to forward this idea on to you.

Thank you for your time.

Chris Borey
Age: 38
Resident: Des Moines.

[xcyclone]

Hopefully they will work on making the water safe to play in, as well. I'm not just talking about the toddler that died in there a couple years ago after being pulled in the back end, I'm talking about the sanitation issues. I work in Cap Sqaure, and security often warns us about stepping foot in the water, making sure we don't let our kids play there (I did once before I found out). You can see them cleaning poop out of the water some mornings, you can always catch someone peeing in there, and a few of the homeless in town use it for bathing. They use absolutely no cleaning agents of any kind. There is so much nasty bacteria in there, if you don't get sick after playing in the water, it would be surprising....


/end of public service announcement....

[DMRyan]

Good to know, as I personally watched a mother playfully dunk her baby into the water this past weekend. I suppose it's certainly no different than swimming in lake or river water though.

I volunteered the Nollen Plaza cleanup/beautification thing this past weekend, and found out that when Nollen Plaza is renovated, there will be a more concentrated effort to move the homeless out of the area. The planners for Nollen Plaza are well aware that this is a problem that detracts a lot of people from using Nollen Plaza more often.

[Brady]

nasty.... it's probably worse than dipping into a lake b/c it's so much more concentrated... ...nasty...

[dmluvr]

Good to know, as I personally watched a mother playfully dunk her baby into the water this past weekend. I suppose it's certainly no different than swimming in lake or river water though.

Your right--it isn't any different. And unfortantly, untill Iowa takes better care of it's lakes and rivers(let's be honest, we have trashed our waters), I won't be taking my son out swimming into them anytime soon. The only exception is Gray's Lake.

I just really hope there is some good incorporation of water and lighting for this!!! We've got Sen Mc Coy on this, so we should be good!!

[DMRyan]

Is Gray's Lake any better than anywhere else really? That's Raccoon River water feeding into that lake. If it isn't high on hog feces, and sewage, it's the nitrates from the run off farm fertilizer. And this is the river we get our tasty Des Moines tap water from!

It'll take Iowa ages, and probably a major change to current farming methods to repair the damage to its waterways.

[Ingersoll1978]

If its not in a treated pool, or a fountain shooting fresh water, or in your house...you probably shouldn't swim in it.

[dmluvr]

your both right, but gray's lake is such a cool park.
Don't forget about all the kiddie poop in there too!!

Yeah, Iowa is disgusting about it's water's and it's soo sad. Because this truely a pretty state.....

[xcyclone]

this truely a pretty state.....

Yes, it is pretty. Look but don't touch!

[DMRyan]

An editorial about Nollen Plaza, and the changes that will hopefully get under way soon next year.

Laird: Making over D.M.'s front porch

By ROX LAIRD
REGISTER EDITORIAL WRITER
July 14, 2005

Nollen Plaza in downtown Des Moines has been described as the "front porch" for the Civic Center performing arts theater across the street. It has never quite lived up to that description, though. A quarter century after it was built, Nollen Plaza has declined into a decrepitude more fitting for a back yard that's best fenced off from public view.

OK, maybe that's an exaggeration, but the plaza is showing obvious signs of wear and tear. Despite a recent cleanup effort by downtown groups, scuffing skateboards and the elements have taken their toll.

Refurbishing the existing plaza, including the popular but costly-to-maintain Brenton Fountain and Reflecting Pool, would cost well over $1 million.

Besides, the plaza simply does not work as intended as a public gathering space. So, rather than put on another patch, downtown leaders decided this was a good opportunity to rethink the whole concept of Nollen Plaza.

A New York consultant recommended a complete overhaul, a Chicago landscape architect is working on concepts, including possible elimination of the fountain, and the Downtown Community Alliance is seeking a major benefactor to pay for it.

This is a great opportunity for Des Moines to realize the original dream for the plaza, which occupies a prime block in the heart of downtown. It is a magnet for lunchtime crowds drawn from their cubicle farms by food vendors and the soothing splash of the fountain.

As an abstract design, it is a handsome public space. The graceful geometry of the stair-step seating surrounding the fountain on the paved north half contrasts sharply with the shaded park on the south half. The giant, whimsical Crusoe Umbrella sculpture by Claes Oldenburg is a civic icon.

Yet, except for lunchtime crowds, skateboarders and vagabonds sleeping on benches, it usually stands empty. The concrete side is nearly intolerable under a hot summer sun, the shaded side is spooky and uninviting and the fountain wall acts as a permanent barrier between the two. Despite its prime location, it barely interacts with neighboring buildings.

Such huge potential. Such a disappointment.

As the New York consultant wrote, "Nollen Plaza now grossly underperforms as a public space."

The city and the downtown alliance should open the discussion to hear from the public about what people who use the plaza would like to see there.

Here's to it becoming a star performer. With the right design and the right mix of organized activities, the plaza could become a premier public space downtown. A place where people gather for coffee and conversation, solitude or to hear a jazz band. A neighborhood park for growing numbers of downtown residents and office workers. A playground for children in downtown schools. A destination for people looking for a taste of vibrant urban life.

Not a front porch, or a hidden back yard, but a little bit of Central Park in Des Moines.

[Cyclonefan]

i think they need to keep the fountian though. Des Moines is like the only city to not have a major fountian. They need more plazas and fountins here.

[Des Moineser]

The Nollen Plaza fountain isn't major? It's centrally located, works some of the time, is decent in size, has a landmark umbrella, and is a gathering place for businessmen and the homeless. It may be in major need of repair, but it's pretty major as well.

[hawk61401]

I agree with cyclonefan. Des Moines needs more fountains. Something more flashy in the Western Gateway, one in front of the courthouse, something on the east side.

And something that you can see from blocks away that shoots up in the air. If you don't know about Nollen Plaza fountain, you can drive by without knowing it's there.

[Des Moineser]

I thinkn he said there are no major fountains, but really, how falshy do we need to make a fountain that will eventually have the homeless bathing in it? We could spend milllions of dollars turning the Western Gateway Park's smaller fountains and fields into one huge, beatifully lighted fountain, but then you lose the ambience of being away from the big things in downtown. If you want a major fountain, put away from the peaceful areas, and put it where a multi-ten of thousands of dollars of lighting system will be enjoyed at night. No one is crazy enough to go into a very treed in, darker area at night, so little fountains work there. The centerpiece should be in the centerpiece plaza, which will still be Nollen Plaza.