ISU vs. U of I Discussion

[Zeus]

Hehe, I'm sure management of this place would be smart enough to cater to all fans in central Iowa. Even the fans from Lames.

Though I'd have to ask . . . . are there really ANY Iowa State fans? Aren't they just all Iowa Hawkeye haters?

[Ingersoll1978]

When it comes down to it, I'd support the 'clones before the hawks. But really, I like both (after all...they are Iowa schools...and I own sweatshirts from both schools). I'll watch both of them when they are on TV.

[mistertwister]

You can spot the Iowa State fans in Des Moines easy. They're the ones with college degrees.

You can spot the Hawkeye fans easily too....they're the ones waiting on you in the check out line.

Seriously, as much as Hawkeye fan hates to admit it, it would take severe case of myopia not to see the rise of the Cyclone fan base in the DM metro. For over a hundred years the University of Iowa has had a largely unchallenge place in the heart of average Iowa sports fan. And I don't think they like the thought of our beloved university to the north, making inroads into the hearts and minds of Iowans. ISU has a long way to go to achieve half the loyalty that Iowa commands....but you have to admit, Iowa fan sees them in the rearview mirror and we all know, objects may be closer than they appear.

I'm an ISU alum but I root for any Iowa team. I hate the fans who belittle the accomplishments or fan bases of any team....except the Cornhuskers, they deserve it.

[icia]

Go Panthers!

[DMRyan]

I hate the fans who belittle the accomplishments or fan bases of any team....except the Cornhuskers, they deserve it.

Now there's something we call all agree on!

[Mandingo]

Seriously, as much as Hawkeye fan hates to admit it, it would take severe case of myopia not to see the rise of the Cyclone fan base in the DM metro.

Living in this area for the number of years I have, this one really annoys me.

ISU won a bowl game last season, they had their best defense in a long time and the 'vast' number of ISU fans living in the DM area and within an hour of Ames still filled the stadium to under 91 percent capacity (41,518 per game) where Iowa sold out its 70,000 seat stadium.

Or how about men's hoops...Let's be honest; Iowa is in its darkest days as a program. They played their way into the NCAA tourney, but that was in the B10 tourney and after all of their home games played out, and after the Pierce debacle that took place in January. So there was not a big demand for Iowa basketball tickets.

Still, Iowa finished 22nd in the nation in men's hoops attendance, averaging 11,900 per game, or 76.8 percent of capacity. Iowa State, with a sizzling finish to their season, winning what, 8 or so games in a row and a bright and positive February, averaged 11,208 per game, or 79.9 percent of capacity.

There may be more Clone gear, garb and flags in town now than there was seven years ago, when Iowa had beaten little brother 15 times in a row, but wearing ISU gear without being embarassed does not equal the rabid support that Iowa fans give to their teams, during good times (100% capacity in Kinnick) or bad (similar capacity in men's hoops to ISU).

Next topic, please.

[NOG]

Mr. Twister wrote:

For over a hundred years the University of Iowa has had a largely unchallenge place in the heart of average Iowa sports fan.

Believe it or not there was a poll in the Des Moines Register back in the late 70's that had the majority of central Iowans on the Cyclone bandwagon. Iowa was wallowing in two decades of football misery and the Cyclones were enjoying the Johnny Majors\Earl Bruce era.

Zeus wrote:

Though I'd have to ask . . . . are there really ANY Iowa State fans? Aren't they just all Iowa Hawkeye haters?

I don't hate the Iowa Hawkeyes, I actually grew up a hawk fan living in Eastern Iowa. What I hate is the sizeable segment of their fanbase that never went to Iowa or any college for that matter. These are the people whose lives are so pathetic that they must live vicariously through the successes of Iowa Football because they have none of their own. Because of that I enjoy watching the Hawks lose (sorry luvr) so these people can go back to beating their wives\children and their meth labs.

[Zeus]

"What I hate is the sizeable segment of their fanbase that never went to Iowa or any college for that matter"

PERFECT example of a 'clone fan.
Why is this argument always brought up? Do you have to graduate from ISU to be a 'clone fan and vice/versa with Iowa? I must not have gotten my "Iowa Hawkeye Fan Application" paperwork mailed in time to actually be considered a fan. What's the criteria? I'm a Steelers fan, though I've never lived in Pittsburgh. Does that count . . . or do I have to go through the Steeler Fan Zoning Commission?

Mandingo said it best - a fan supports their team. You have no right to define the criteria for being a fan if you can't even support your own team!

[mistertwister]

Zues, there was a study done in the 80s that indicated that 70% of the Iowa Hawkeyes fan base never went to college, let alone attended the University of Iowa.

Just thought I'd point that out.

[NOG]

PERFECT example of a 'clone fan.
Why is this argument always brought up? Do you have to graduate from ISU to be a 'clone fan and vice/versa with Iowa? I must not have gotten my "Iowa Hawkeye Fan Application" paperwork mailed in time to actually be considered a fan. What's the criteria? I'm a Steelers fan, though I've never lived in Pittsburgh. Does that count . . . or do I have to go through the Steeler Fan Zoning Commission?

Alright I will admit I did a poor job of answering your initial question. I don't hate the hawkeyes, I hate the segment of their fan base that somehow thinks they are superior to clone fans because they jumped on the hawkeye bandwagon, the ones that never go to games, never donate to the athletic department, never do anything to support the program, other than getting drunk and acting inappropiately in front of families and attempt to some how justify themselves as being better human beings because they root for Iowa over Iowa State. It just so happens these are the type of people I described in my previous post. I am sure these people are not representative of the majority of the fan base and I am sure there is a large segment of the fanbase that never went to Iowa that do a good job of supporting and representing the program. But the ones that I am describing have made it impossible for me to root for Iowa.

You have no right to define the criteria for being a fan if you can't even support your own team!

What do you mean I can't even support my team. I donate to the athletic department, go to every home game, make it to a few road games, and have memberships in the National and Greater Des Moines Cyclone Clubs.

If you are talking about attendance, the only difference in fan support is due to the larger population and fan base the U of I draws from. Attendance for the most part is based on what the team did the year before. If your team sucked the year before you are going to have less people at the games the next year. I find it humerous that Mandigo is basing his fan support theory on attendance figures from a year when Iowa went 10-3 and Iowa State went 2-10 the previous season. Iowa's fan's are no different than Iowa State's. When a team has a bad record the previous year, fan support usually drops off. This is true of both programs.

Not sure where Mandingo got his attendance figures for 2004 but the the NCAA.org site only has attendance figures from 1998- 2003 for individual schools, so I will use those.

Iowa
1997 Record (7-5) 1998 Attendance (68,330)
1998 Record (3-8) 1999 Attendance (63,464)
1999 Record (1-10) 2000 Attendance (61,123)
2000 Record (3-9) 2001 Attendance (64,665)
2001 Record (7-5) 2002 Attendance (61,747)
2002 Record (11-2) 2003 Attendance (65,798)

Iowa State
1997 Record (1-10) 1998 Attendance (35,181)
1998 Record (3-8) 1999 Attendance (38,930)
1999 Record (4-7) 2000 Attendance (42,020)
2000 Record (9-3) 2001 Attendance (45,172)
2001 Record (7-5) 2002 Attendance (43,961)
2002 Record (7-7) 2003 Attendance (44,822)

[Zeus]

Interesting. That was 20-odd years ago though, not that fans change allegiances very easily.
Also, we don't know if the final numbers for that "research" were compiled by ISU math majors or grads. That would definitely call for a recount.


I'm just fascinated by this argument by ISU fans. I guess we'll all need to have a beer at the new bar and discuss it.

[Mandingo]

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/Internet/attendance/IA_CAPACITY.pdf

And look at Iowa's 3-9 year...a better attendance compared to capacity than your bowl season last year.

[dogbo]

It's the superiority complex thing that drives me crazy too.

I also grew up an Hawk fan and still mildly support them. However I went to ISU and am now I diehard fan. Why? Because that's where I went to school. That's where my true affiliation lies.

Example. First day on the job at new workplace pretty fresh out of college. I'm unpacking my stuff and put a Cyclone coffee cup on my desk. Guy in office next to me stops by to introduce himself. See's coffee cup and makes disapproving face and then comments (paraphrasing to the best of my memory), "Cyclones? Why would you have that? Hawks are the only team that counts. Cyclones suck!" Thinking he was a U of I grad (understandable ribbing his in-state rival) I smiled and acknowledged his comment, "I know, I know...you went to Iowa right" He answers "no". Immediately I'm thinking who's this idiot putting ISU down and elevating U of I when he never set foot on either campus! I'm freakin' supporting the school I attended and have a vested interest in seeing it succeed. If they guy chooses to support U of I, fine (I guess ), but don't give the we're better than you additude....when you're not truly one of them!

[icia]

I live in University Heights, a couple blocks from Kinnick Stadium. You should see some of the jokers going to Hawkeye games. Definitely not college graduates.

[Mandingo]

I live in University Heights, a couple blocks from Kinnick Stadium. You should see some of the jokers going to Hawkeye games. Definitely not college graduates.

It's clone fans that toss out this superiority complext that Iowa fans have, then toss out a statement like the above that are quite hypocritical.

Even if your BS statement were representative of most Iowa fans, which it is not, does it matter? They must do enough to buy tickets to games and support their team on the road, at bowl games, etc, the way that most AD's would dream about.

[dogbo]

Zeus writes:

Do you have to graduate from ISU to be a 'clone fan and vice/versa with Iowa? I must not have gotten my "Iowa Hawkeye Fan Application" paperwork mailed in time to actually be considered a fan. What's the criteria? I'm a Steelers fan, though I've never lived in Pittsburgh.

Without realizing it Zeus, you kind of proved our (read: ISU side of the fence) point. You've outed yourself by acknowledging you're a Steelers fan. Why is that? Why would you pick a team from a city you've never lived in? If locations isn't a criterion for you, why not be Lion's fan or a Saints fan? I'll tell you why, because you go out and pick the winner, the high profile, low risk team. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing inherently wrong with that, as long as you're willing to admit as much. As ISU grad supporting our institution, we don't choose to support ISU for any other reason that it's our school. However, there's a group of Hawks fans that can't say the same thing. At a time in their life they made the easy, safe, glamorous pick and now they think somehow this make them better....and ISU fans not so much.

If you'd been a life long Bengles fan, I won't be wasting my time with this response. But after you throw that out there, I couldn't resist.

(boy...this is fun! )

[DMRyan]

As continued from the West Glent Town Center thread:

[Peachtree]

Zues, there was a study done in the 80s that indicated that 70% of the Iowa Hawkeyes fan base never went to college, let alone attended the University of Iowa.

Just thought I'd point that out.

And 65% that DID go to college don't remember a damn thing!

[icia]

Mandigo, I'm actually not a Cyclone fan (or hater). Just making an observation about some of the Hawkeye fans attending the games.

[Zeus]

FWIW Dog, I became a Steeler's fan at the age of 4. If someone wants to call me a bandwagon fan or a poseur, so be it. It's been 32 years in the making. My 3-year old might become a Spurs fan this year and I'll have no problem with it.

My original comment stated that there does not appear to be any real 'clone fans. This is nice though, you and your entourage have proven my original point, albeit with an addendum:

There are no real 'clone fans, only Hawkeye haters AND ISU grads you have no other choice. Hawk fans CHOSE the Hawks, and they chose wisely.

It's good to live in the Hawkeye state.

I thought we were talking about a bar anyway . . . ??

[hawk61401]

I think it's really stupid for any Iowan to hate either one of the universities. I am a Hawkeye fan, but if the Hawks can't do it, I would like nothing better to see Iowa State succeed and go all the way to win a national championship. It would be friggin' great for the University and great for the state of Iowa too. We have enough bullsh*t happening with the radical right dividing this country into red and blue states. We don't need Cyclone or Hawk fans acting like a**holes to the other side.

Iowa does not have big time professional sports. So, a lot of fans who never went to one of the universities or maybe never had a day in college
have a chance to go to a big time college game. Unfortunately, it gives an opportunity for irresponsible morons from college grads to high school dropouts to act like idiots and give a bad name to the respective university and the State of Iowa.

[Ankeny Husker Freak]

after listening to KXNO this afternoon, you would have to wonder if there is such a thing as a die hard Cyclone fan.

Steve Deace, PM drive time host on KXNO, editor of a Cyclone fan magazine and a so called Meeechigan fan is looking for a beat writer for his Magazine.

Anyway, since it's a so called "dead time" of year for sports, Deace his having a reality style show contest dubbed "the reporter" to find the next beat writer, being a Cyclone fan doesn't hurt.

The field of 14 was narrowed down to 8 and those final 8 were asked one by one to come on air today for a follow up interview, with the one question being sing the ISU fight song. After all, the final 8 all have some sort of ties to ISU and claim to be diehard Cyclown fans, only a couple knew the ISU fight song.

[mistertwister]

Oh please.....if you're a fan of a team you're a fan. It doesn't matter how many games you go to or if you know the starting line up. What really matters is pride and expectation. If you believe as a fan, that your team has a reasonable expectation to win and a possibility of achieving something great, you are far more motivated to be a part of it. This extends to buying season tickets, giving money to the atheletic department, buying merchandise, etc..... Atheletic programs that lack that expectation, are often moribund (see the Cyclone football program prior to 97 and basketball prior to 85).

To break the lackluster support of such programs, all it takes is to create a sense of competitiveness and then a winning attitude. Once the fan base starts to believe a program can achieve great things, they will respond with loyalty and financial support.

ISU has a long history of disappointment to overcome before they can ever hope to command the financial and fan support that the University of Iowa does. They have made great strides in the last decade though, breaking the streak in football, playing in and winning in bowl games, beating the traditional powers of the B12, winning conference tourneys and championships in BBall, NCAA tourney berths, players drafted to the NBA and NFL. All these things begin to add up and create the image of an atheletic department committed to competing and winning despite many disadvantages (size, budget, etc..)

Personally, I'm about 2 years from committing to season tickets for fball and basketball. Once my son is old enough to enjoy the game and not distract me from my enjoyment, I'm there. As it stands now, I make games when I can, if I can. Call me whatever you like, but I am a fan of the Clones....and of the Hawks on every day the two don't face each other.

[Mandingo]

Oh please.....if you're a fan of a team you're a fan. It doesn't matter how many games you go to or if you know the starting line up. What really matters is pride and expectation.

Tell that to VanDeVelde and see what he says.

If pride and expectations are what really matters, Iowa State would still have a baseball team.

[mistertwister]

Blame the loss of Baseball more on Title IX than finances. In order to get into compliance with Title IX, ISU had to had more non revenue generating women's sports. To make up for the budget shortfall, they had to cut men's programs. Simple numbers game.

I would be a fan of Iowa State if they only had chess.

[Lost Planet]

As was mentioned before, Iowa has no NFL, NBA, MLB, or NHL teams! As sports fans in Iowa, our colleges are all that we can cheer for whether we attended there or not. They are the only significant teams that really represent our state on a national scale. Iowa and ISU games are on every TV in Iowa and people grow up watching these teams. You can't tell these people they can't be fan of their team anymore just because they chose not to go to college or chose to go to a different college. I grew up a die-hard Iowa fan but went to ISU and UNI for career path reasons. My allegiance remained strongly with the Hawkeyes, though.

[NOG]

Zues wrote:

I'm just fascinated by this argument by ISU fans.

For me its because I associate being a Clone with much more than an athletic team. It also has do with my college experience and the attachment I formed with the university through my 7,8 or 9 years I was there . So I have a hard time with someone who calls themself a hawk without having gone through those experiences and forming those attachments.

I can understand the whole Iowa does not have a profesional team so I chose the hawks to root for. Believe me, if my choice in colleges was based on athletics instead of academics, I would have chosen Iowa. Its much easier and less stressful to be a Hawk fan. But for me, I know the great moments, like winning two Big 12 titles in a row with an elite 8 appearance, and the school's first bowl win, mean so much more than they would have if I had chosen to follow Iowa State as opposed to experiencing and becoming a part of the ISU community.

Zues wrote:

There are no real 'clone fans, only Hawkeye haters AND ISU grads you have no other choice. Hawk fans CHOSE the Hawks, and they chose wisely

Now we both know you do not really beleive this and that you are just trying to start a flame war. But just in case you are hitting the black and gold kool aid that hard I will respond. I know many people who take the high road and root for both teams (sorry but I am not one of them). You have even seen posts from ISU grads on here contracdicting your statement. I also know transplants to this state who are ISU fans, they never graduated from ISU.

[Ingersoll1978]

I second that statement Lost Planet. It doesn't matter if you graduated from the school or not. This applies to a lot more than just sports. Would it be wrong for someone to love Des Moines and not be from there or live there???

[dmluvr]

You can spot the Hawkeye fans easily too....they're the ones waiting on you in the check out line

......or write commercial and residential mortgages for a multibillion dollar corporation.

As an avid life long deep blooded hawkeye fan, I realize that the majority of the forumer's on here are clone fans. Which is fine. However, to highly critize the hawk fans the way they have on here is simply unfair. I've seen just as many Cyclone fans that act stupid as Hawkeyes. In fact, every year the Hawkeyes travel to Ames, we've been treated like crap. yes, it's the same in Iowa city as well.

Addtionally, I didn't realize you had to be a student/graduate of the school to be a fan. I frankly find that pretty humerous beingst that I live in a state that gives d**k for support to their local sports teams but yet will spend big $$$ for teams like Green Bay, or KC, etc. etc. Addtionally, I wonder how many of these packer fans and chief fans are also clone fans as well as hawkeye fans. Hmmmm, ironic.

[WesternIowan]

I have read some pretty harsh comments from Clone fans regarding Hawk fans. I have been holding back, but couldn't do it anymore.

Nog wrote

I also know transplants to this state who are ISU fans, they never graduated from ISU.

Nog-Did you give your approval to these transplants to be ISU fans? After all, they didn't go to school there and didn't develop the bond that you did.

You contradict yourself just the same as others on this board. It sounds as though you are a die hard Clone fan. Good for you, it's your choice. But to disregard fans of other teams for the same reasons it's ok to accept fans of your team is pretty...well...stupid.

Following your earlier comments, your kid(s) cannot be fans until they go to school there and have that multi-year bond with the place.