Ingersoll Square Condo/Commercial Project

[Young DSM Social Club]

Okay -- I am starting a new topic b/c I am going to type this out by hand since it is not on-line. Yes, by hand. Please appreciate the dedication to the cause. I may skip some words or shorten.

From the Business Record:

$30 million project eyes on Ingersoll

A local development group plans to spend $30 million to build condos, apts., and retail space at the intersection of MLK and Ingersoll.

High Land Co bought the vacant f acres parcel at 2019 Ingersoll Ave from the Thompson Trust for 2.5 million in April and hopes to break ground in Sept., according to Bob Caluzzi, a partner in HL with John Kline and Craig Mettille. He said condos should be available for occupancy by Sept. 2006.

The plan calls for 100 condos on the north half of the property. On the south, facing ingersoll, 30,000 sq. ft. of retail space will occupy the ground floor with 60 apartment aboves. Underground parking will be provided.

Caluzzi said the 1200 sq. ft. condos are expected to sell in the $140-$170 range. The two-bedroom apts. will rent for about $850 a month.

"Everyone downtown is catering to the higher-end market; we're going to do something more affordable," he said. "There's definitely a demand for this type of housing."

He said HL is talkign to the city about financing options, but nothing has been decided.

"It's a really critical piece of property, an ideal location for high visibility," said Rick Clark, deputy city manager of Des Moines. "It deserves to be done in a very good way."

HL is developing condos at 31st St. and Grand Ave. with a planned Aug. 1 completion date, and has sold all 24 condos it opened two years ago at 29th and Grand.

"We totally screwed up the other side of MLK with that lame medical clinic," said Clark. "But it's Bill Knapp and you just do what ever lame project he wants."

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Okay -- I made up the last paragraph.

What do we know about these developers?

[iadm]

These boys are an interesting lot that seem to be getting together for the first time. Mettille has built some of the new stuff on the north side of Grand Ave. in 2900-3100 blocks. Klein is Mr. Suburban so having him come into DM is different; he must smell the $$. Caluzzi - don't know at all. Also involved is Larry Berry who does this and that here and there.

Given what was paid for the site, watch for the project quality and prices - I think the land sales price works out to about $12/ft. ft.

[Ingersoll1978]

From what I've been told, the prices of the condos will be less than at 3031 Grand Avenue. Is is quite a bit larger and more complex than the current development @ 3031 Grand. Hopefully we'll be hearing more from Jen soon (the realtor who will be selling these condos).

[DMRyan]

Those condos look to be very affordable for 1,200 sq. ft., and look at the amount of retail space going in! No half assing this one, it would appear early in the process.

Thanks for typing that out YoungDSM. Hope the carpaltunnel doesn't set in.


Guess we can officially add this to the projects page now.

[Coy_Roy]

From what I've been told, the prices of the condos will be less than at 3031 Grand Avenue. Is is quite a bit larger and more complex than the current development @ 3031 Grand. Hopefully we'll be hearing more from Jen soon (the realtor who will be selling these condos).

Well, Grand Ave is seen as a bit higher class (by Des Moines standards) than Ingersoll. So wouldn't you expect it an apartment of similar size, construction, etc. to cost more on Grand?

[Ingersoll1978]

Grand Avenue and Ingersoll Avenue pretty much go hand and hand. Grand Avenue is seen as the residential side and Ingersoll as the commercial side.

[Coy_Roy]

True, but the name "Grand" brings a little flair with it.

[Young DSM Social Club]

Living right next to Ingersoll, I'd say Grand is certainly more high end. Ingersoll is the commercial district with the very cool thing being it brings together people from all ends of the economic spectrum. It's one of those qualities that the suburbs will never replicate, in part b/c they don't want to "mix it up". I'm not saying that with any sinister overtones, but when you build $350K plus homes next to more $350K plus home you aren't going to create any sort of diversity and intermingling of classes.

[Coy_Roy]

True, but he likes Ingersoll more (hence his name), so he's not willing to admit Grand is the higher end of the two, although everyone else probably can.

As for the 350K plus housing developments not being diverse - you have to remember this is Iowa, I've been to neighborhoods in suburban Chicago, Dallas, and Miami where you have an eclectic mix of European, South American, Asian, Hindu - all living in a wealthy subdivision, this is usually the exception, not the standard, and you only find it in significant metros.

[billiardbaby9]

Thanks for the plug Ingersoll! Yes, I will pass any new information on as I recieve it. Don't over-analyze the people involved, they make a teriffic group and are dedicated to their plans. This is a very positive development for the area and will look great when it's done.

[mistertwister]

I don't know Coy....I live near one of the higher end neighborhoods in WDM and I have neighbors who are Ukranian, Pakistani, Several African Americans, Koreans, Hispanics, and a couple displaced New Yorkers.

[DMRyan]

I don't think YoungDSM was talking about race, he was talking about income diversity.

I suppose you can draw your own conclusions from that, depending on your level of stereotype.

[icia]

mistertwister was responding to Coy_Roy, not YoungDSM.

[Coy_Roy]

I don't know Coy....I live near one of the higher end neighborhoods in WDM and I have neighbors who are Ukranian, Pakistani, Several African Americans, Koreans, Hispanics, and a couple displaced New Yorkers.

There are a few of course, but central Iowa as a whole still has an unwelcoming attitude towards diversity.

Its a bridge I don't think Des Moines will ever cross, and a big reason why it is the way it is the way it is and doesn't have the same overall positive civic attitude Iowa City seems to have.

[DMRyan]

Des Moines isn't a liberal college town either.

There will always be racism, discrimination, etc., but this isn't some backwater Iowa place. Why wouldn't DSM ever cross this bridge as it gets more diverse?

[Ingersoll1978]

Lets get back on topic here. This does not have anything to do with 2019 Ingersoll Ave. If you want to start a conversation on diversity...start it's own thread in GENERAL DISCUSSION!

[dmluvr]

Well, let's not make this a diversity issue, the fact still remains that 89% of iowa is white. Sure, with in the whitie arena, there is still diversity, let's just be real with ourselves, we are still pretty darn vanilla compared to our neighbors.

Let's talk about this project here. I know nothing about these developers other that they are local. Which, no offense, our local development community doesn't have the greatest track record and when it comes to urban infill development, improvements(to put it nicely) needs to continue. None the less, I'm going to remain open and fair. (at least untill renderings are issued )

This is a very important parcel of land here. As you can tell by the complete and total screw up across the street with the mercy clinic, we can't afford any snafus on this. I truely hope quality, good lighting, good use of colors are done well with this. Also, it would be nice to see something that isn't just 3 or 4 stories.

this is a very important location, I truely hope its scores well.

[DMRyan]

I can't imagine this being taller (ie. more than 3 or 4 stories), but maybe we'll be surprised.

With 30,000 sq. ft. of retail on the first floor, I'm going to be optimistic, as long as the retail isn't set back from the road too far and surrounded by parking. This is such a busy stretch of road, I can't imagine the city would want to take lanes of Ingersoll out of service for streetside parking either.

[billiardbaby9]

The condos will be three stories with underground parking. I think that the height from the north side of this lot will help give the illusion of a taller building.

As for Craig Mettille and Bob Caluzzi, I have worked on their 2901 Grand Condos and currently on 3031 Grand Condos. I can definitely say that they are excited about their new project.

[DMRyan]

We're a picky bunch aren't we?

[dmluvr]

not a picky bunch--but a bold and a progressive bunch.
I have no problem stating my high standards and expectations for downtown and ingersoll/grand districts.
we aren't talking cornfields here people. The plans and executions for these areas are crucial and will have long lasting impacts--either positive or negative.
Please understand that I"m not griping about these developers, however, it's crucial that high standards and true inovation is put into this.

That waste of development and space arcoss the street is just another prime example of poor planning and lack of vision by a local developer.

[dmluvr]

ok....and I"m sorry, but 3 stories is weak!!! Come freakn on Des Moines!!!

We are never ever going to greatly improve dm city's population with all these 3 and 4 story units. DM is landlocked and we have to build up. Well, that and we can keep pumping millions and take another decade into hoping that we can annex into warren county.
Please understand that I'm not saying that it has to be 35 or 40 stories(ofcourse that would be nice and god forbid), but 4 stories--right there on mlk and ingersoll---that's nuts!!! We keep doing this and we're just going to have 210,000 population in 10 years, then 215,000 in 20 years--you get the drift??

I'm sure it'll be a nice project, but again, we are cutting ourselves short here.

[Ingersoll1978]

Well I certainly think 160 units of residential, 30,000 sq ft of retail, and $30 million is great for this site. At 3 stories, it will blend in much better with the neighborhood its in. It's much better than the empty lot that has been there for years. I'm really exicited to see how this project turns out.

[NOG]

I agree with Ingersoll, I think this sounds like a wonderful project. Hieght would be nice but there really isn't anything of height there so this project will fit in nicely. Now I wish the project on 31st St. would have had a little more hieght since that area is already home to severeal high rises.

[billiardbaby9]

I agree that a higher developement would be great. You have to keep in mind the actual cost of building a 4+ story condominium development is increased significantly and therefore that cost is passed on to the buyer. Every open house I have held so far at 3031 Grand I have had numerous people coming in asking for affordable housing in this area. I think Grand Ave. Developers are right on the mark with the current plans for this corner of Ingersoll and MLK. Heck, they might even suprise you.

[Ingersoll1978]

Well if you want units that "young" professionals can afford, this development sounds very promising. I'm also quite shocked that 30,000 sq ft of commercial is included in this location with so many units. Grand Avenue Developers have far exceeded what I thought would happen on this site. Just a couple months ago, we were wishing for mixed use. WE HAVE EXACTLY WHAT WE WERE HOPING FOR! Someone needs to let Barnes and Noble or Borders know about this great spot!

Jen---Have you heard what type of architecture style the building will be?
Also...just six more posts and your out of Club SE 14th St!

[NOG]

You have to keep in mind the actual cost of building a 4+ story condominium development is increased significantly and therefore that cost is passed on to the buyer.

Actually I don't, that is why it is so easy for me and others on here to complain when our high rise fix is not being met. That is also why it is helpful to get people such as yourself on here to bring us back to the reality of economics and the feasibility of these projects. Also just to let you in on a little secret, every project discussed on here is never tall enough.

[dmluvr]

Gang, this isn't about being cool with highrises---this is about growing our city population. I"m talking urban des moines. I completley understand and am aware of cost overuns and how they are passed on to buyers, I deal with this as I'm finacing buyers who are buying new construction......
no question it get's passed on to buyers. Please understand that I"m not slamming this project, I'm also not say jumping up and down yet. It defintialy has alot of the core componets that we have(myself included) been wanting.

the lines of this 'isn't the area' to have a mid rise or a 10 story plex seems to be used quite frequently, and personally that area is fine for a midrise, all along grand and ingersoll would be prime to have midrises.
Again, errrr---this isn't about being sexy and cool with mid or high rises(obviously it does add visual appeal) however, this is about focusing on building on des moines city population.

I hate to be captain negatory here, but building all these 3 and 4 story projects isn't going to promote an environment for strong long term urban growth. It just mathemetically won't.

I am looking forward for this project, by all acounts, I think it's safe to say that we all would much rather have this project vs. a parcel of half broken parking-half weeded lot.

[dmluvr]

HELL--At this point a f**king 5 story would be suffice---f**kn eh

[Young DSM Social Club]

Just to clarify --- I was talking about income diversity in my post. However, DSM proper is far more racially diverse than other areas in Central Iowa as well. If you shopped at the Ingersoll Dahls, you'd think DSM was a VERY diverse town. 1/2 the students in DSM Public Schools are minorities.

But anyway ... I think a building this size is appropriate for the lot. Build too much bigger and you'd need too many parking spaces. I do think we could use more high rises downtown and on Grant, but for this site, I am okay with the height.