Court Avenue Development Efforts

by **Young DSM Social Club** on Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:55 pm

I also liked the renderings ...

and PLEASE that Surf Shack place deserves a zoning citation. I am stunned that they got away with painting it like that.

Smithson said the place was "fancy" when asked about it.

by **DMRyan** on Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:17 pm

Fancy?

That man needs a clue. This Bookey-Hubbell deal can't come soon enough.

Wouldn't that be great if several things came about on Court Avenue at once? The average DSM resident would be shocked to see a hotel and several residential projects going up at once. I still think that the momentum will build once the new, nearby projects like SCI and riverfront get going.

Pointblank also said that the sale of the Rumley Building to convert to residential (the warehouse to the NW of SCI) had fallen through. It's only a matter of time before something serious is proposed for Rumley Building too.

by **Ingersoll1978** on Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:39 pm

Dang Ryan...you almost made me have a heart attack. I thought you were talking about White Line Lofts.

I wondering what kind of hotel (brand) would be built on Court Avenue.

by **Young DSM Social Club** on Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:26 am

DMRyan --- according to a one time conversation I had with someone at Terrus, Terrus wasn't planning on turning it into residential but simply moving their offices into it. Now, perhaps this guy didn't know the whole story, but if that's all it was, I am glad it fell through!

by **DMRyan** on Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:32 am

No doubt, having that building be completely office wouldn't be ideal. I would think that would be one of the most ideal locations to live in all of downtown if you can deal with the congestion the Science Center will bring.

by **dogbo** on Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:42 am

I recall reading in the city council minutes awhile back that an additional level was added to the parking garaga by the Science Center in anticipation of the Rubley Building be redeveloped....so that takes care of parking issues.

by **DMRyan** on Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:54 am

Was it already added, or did the garage just have the structural capacity to add another level if need be?

by **Young DSM Social Club** on Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:13 am

Here's a semi-scoop I heard from somebody at Hubbell Realty --- Hubbell owns a lot of those old brick storage warehouses around MLK and apparently the long term thoughts of Hubbell are to ultimately turn them into residential --- we're talking quiet a few buildings here.

by **iadm** on Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:49 am

DMRyan wrote:Fancy?

That man needs a clue. This Bookey-Hubbell deal can't come soon enough.

Wouldn't that be great if several things came about on Court Avenue at once? The average DSM resident would be shocked to see a hotel and several residential projects going up at once. I still think that the momentum will build once the new, nearby projects like SCI and riverfront get going.

Pointblank also said that the sale of the Rumley Building to convert to residential (the warehouse to the NW of SCI) had fallen through. It's only a matter of time before something serious is proposed for Rumley Building too.

A. It's the Rumely Bldg. -look at the bldg. front piece as to its spelling.

B. SCI parking ramp does have the capacity to be expanded but won't happen for several years because it would require shutting it down to get the extra levels added on - who wants a ramp shut down while SCI is still new?

C. You want another Vegas in terms of a sign ordinace but are doing Smithson in for his paint job??? You better rethink things because if you think the average sign company is going to do much better than a Smithson-type paint job, you need some more time on the urban scene.

D. Hubbell-Bookey on Ct. AVe is desirable??? At the rate their projects use city money ($50,000+/unit subsidy at least) we could build whole new subdivisions wiht better quality consruciton and more space than what they are proposing.

by **DMRyan** on Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:49 pm

Not sure why you want to single me out with the rolly eyes, what I've said has been echoed by several others on this board.

I never said I wanted another vegas, but some well placed and tastefully down neon similar to the retro Kirkwood Hotel sign would be nice. Something classy to bring some more life to the downtown of our fair insurance city. And I'm sorry, but what Smithson has done to the Generations Building should be considered a crime. That is hideous and I can't believe it's that easy to significantly change the look of a historic building for the worse the way he has with that paint job.

I wish the city had picked Lander-Sherman, a developer with deeper pockets and better access to financing for the redevelopment of Court Avenue, but the reality is that we have Bookey-Hubbell. At any rate, either developer would've required a city subsidy, although the amount to bring the project to the construction stage may differ. What another black eye and setback it would be to go through this process again and wait another year or two for a new developer to come up with a new proposal. In the meantime, construction costs would go up and the city would probably still have to put hefty amounts into a subsidy. I wish our downtown (particularly a problem spot like Court Avenue) was a healthy enough of a market to support new residential without subsidy, but the reality is we're not there yet.

by **DMRyan** on Thu May 05, 2005 5:03 pm

In another one of these I'll believe it when I see it developments, it sounds like the Court Avenue project is defintely on again. This brief article pegs the construction to start in September of this year.

Court Avenue entertainment, housing project is 'on' again

By DONNELLE ELLER
REGISTER STAFF WRITER
May 5, 2005
The $36 million Court Avenue housing and entertainment project has new life, with a state board deciding today that downtown Des Moines development project should have been awarded $2.7 million in tax credits.

The Iowa Finance Authority Board agreed with the director of the state agency, saying it erred in denying the credits to the developers of the Court Avenue project ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Â Hubbell Realty and Harry Bookey.

The tax credits are expected to be awarded next month.

Rick Tollakson, president of Hubbell Realty, said the company plans to reconfigure the project to reduce the cost. At the time the tax credits were denied, the developers also lost out on an $800,000 housing loan.

Tollakson said the project may have fewer condos, although they will likely be larger than originally planned.

Hubbell Realty doesn't plan to seek additional city money, which totals $7 million since the project was approved in 2003. The company will outline its proposal to city staff next week.

Construction could begin by September, Tollakson said.

by **Ingersoll1978** on Thu May 05, 2005 8:32 pm

This is great news! But I won't get excited on this project until the construction crews show up.

***Note to dogbo-Sorry...you had a double post and I went to delete one of them...and got an error message. Then I tried to delete the other one...and it deleted both! SORRY!

Repost!

by **dogbo** on Fri May 06, 2005 9:14 am

No problem Ingersoll. As you'll recall, my comment was along the lines of "hope this happens...finally...but taking a wait and see attitude before getting to excited.'.

by **dmluvr** on Fri May 06, 2005 11:06 am

Construction could begin by September, Tollakson said

September 200 and when?

by **Ingersoll1978** on Fri May 06, 2005 12:02 pm

2039.

by **dmluvr** on Fri May 06, 2005 12:11 pm

that assumes the weather cooperates! :lol:

by **DMRyan** on Sun May 22, 2005 6:21 pm

Even though we're still waiting on news from the new condos/apartments to be constructed (or not), it looks like the renovation of the Spaghetti Works Building will actually get underway before too long.

The City will approve the plans for the building at tomorrow's council meeting.

by **DMRyan** on Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:42 am

Weee!

Plans change again, this time they've dropped in scale by quite a bit to include brownstone rowhomes instead of residential with underground parking. I'd be surprised to see this make it past the city council. I think they've just about had enough cutbacks. We'll see what's proposed for Court Avenue next year I guess. :mad:

Still, it looks like the Spaghetti Works renovation should continue, maybe.

Developers again shrink plan for Court Avenue revitalization

If rejected by D.M. City Council, the group's effort could end

By JASON CLAYWORTH and DONNELLE ELLER
REGISTER STAFF WRITERS

An effort to revitalize downtown Des Moines' Court Avenue district has again been scaled back, which developers say is the only way to keep the plan alive without more taxpayer money.

The revised plan, which relies less on city subsidies, replaces 40 planned condominiums with 25 three-story brownstones in an area between Third and Fourth streets just south of Court Avenue.

At least two City Council members say the new plan is contrary to their goal of "high-density" housing coupled with commercial space.

The council will vote on the latest plan July 18.

"I won't support it as it is now," said City Councilwoman Christine Hensley, whose ward covers much of downtown. "There is a significant difference in the project than what was originally proposed."

Developer Jim Hubbell said the change is necessary to keep the project on solid financial ground. Rejection of the new plan could spell the end of his group's effort on Court Avenue except for renovation to the Spaghetti Works building, he said. "If they say no, we're done," Hubbell said.

Hensley, Councilman Chris Coleman and Mayor Frank Cownie are on a committee that oversees downtown proposals. Coleman objects to the new plan. Cownie said Monday that he shares the concerns but is not ready to denounce the project.

"My vote will be based upon what the original intent was and what it is today," Cownie said.

Hubbell and partner Harry Bookey in 2003 proposed a nearly $50 million plan that included roughly 200 apartments or condos along or adjacent to Court Avenue as well as a year-round farmers market, restaurants and nightclubs.

Developers have reconfigured the project several times because of delays in obtaining federal and state incentives. The developers say city officials have encouraged them to cut parts of the original plan to make room for possible developments, such as a hotel.

The new plan will cost $27 million. It has 129 - about 35 percent fewer - condos or townhouses and less than half the planned commercial space. Most of the entertainment venues are gone, along with the year-round market. Underground parking has also been abandoned.

Hubbell said this is the best proposal he can offer the city under its spending limits. The altered plan not only closes a nearly $1 million gap in finances but also reduces city subsidies by as much as $750,000, he noted.

The plan includes converting the upper three levels of the Spaghetti Works building at the corner of Third Street and Court Avenue into 51 apartments. That idea will likely go forward regardless of the council's decision next month, Hubbell said.

Incentives offered to developers to start the project now amount to $2.2 million. The city's total, including land costs, archaeology work, tax abatement and other longtime subsidies, will be about $7.5 million.

Rick Tollakson, president of Hubbell Realty, believes "there's a good chance we could get a big part of the entertainment" off the ground, once the residential piece of the project is established.

The city owns much of the land for the proposed redevelopment. A group of private investors known as the Court Avenue Housing Investment Fund in 2003 presented council members with four plans from various groups to redevelop Court Avenue. The investment group recommended a plan other than Bookey and Hubbell's.

The council, however, selected Hubbell and Bookey's proposal after an outcry of support for the entertainment component. City Manager Eric Anderson also recommended Hubbell and Bookey's plan.

The city's desire to breathe life into Court Avenue has lingered for more than a decade. One of the biggest setbacks came in January 2002, when investors encountered financial problems with a $34 million deal to add restaurants, retail shops and a 20-screen movie theater.

Coleman said the latest plan has changed too drastically, although he understands the reasons. He believes a high level of interest in downtown will encourage other developers to again come forward.

by **Ankeny Husker Freak** on Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:04 am

it's just mind boggling that the city of DSM and developers have yet to come to an agreement after how many years of discussion and failed after failed after failed plans to redevelop Court Ave?

by **Young DSM Social Club** on Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:44 am

I don't get it --- why is it feasible for the Metro Lofts to get developed, but a block away it's impossible to get anything done? This makes no sense to me.

I'd drop this plan as well --- there are people out there that will do this right, if the City just waits. I am glad to see Spaghetti Works getting renovated -- let them focus on that for now and seek new developers.

Kudos to Hensley and Coleman for already stating publicly they won't support it. I hope the others fall in line.

There IS a downtown renaissance in the works -- we don't need watered down projects like this when there's certainly the possibility of something better. Even if there never is anything more proposed, I think this second-rate plan can be dusted off by somebody else.

I think in the course of an afternoon of postings, we'd come up with something better than what is currently proposed.

by **Ingersoll1978** on Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:43 am

I personally think this is a great thing! Downtown isn't the same place it was 5 years, heck even a year ago. I hope the city decides this is a no go and open up the development proposals again. I think they would find a much better developer for these lots. Let Hubbell have fun with the Spaghetti Works and lets get some "real" urban space on Court Avenue.

by **NOG** on Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:18 am

Yeah this is pathetic, the city has already kicked in $7 million and these guys still can't get it done, utterly rediculous. If these guys wouldn't have lied about what type of developement they could do for Court Ave and would have presented this pathetic plan they have now, originally, the city would never have approved them for this project and we would probably have had some tangible progress on Court Ave by now. Instead these guys have wasted 2 years getting absolutely nothing done while developers all around downtown are bringing wonderful projects online without the city kicking in $7 million for them. I hope the city has finally learned their lesson and will vote this down and start the process all over again. Our downtown is seeing way to much growth and interest in downtown housing to settle for crap like this.

by **Ingersoll1978** on Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:11 am

We should start emailing our council members to vote no on the revised project.

Here is the link where you can email people on the council:

http://www.ci.des-moines.ia.us/mayor_council/index.htm#

I'm in the process of typing something now.

by **Ingersoll1978** on Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:32 pm

I've already received a response from Mike Kiernan. Here is what he wrote and my letter. I sent this email to the council members that haven't voiced opposition yet. Voice your opinions people! We know you have them! :lol:

Josh,
Thank you for writing and sharing your thoughts and concerns. I believe the Council feels very torn on the issue. They are all committed to make something happen on Court Avenue...but now are unsure if we are settling. There are gonna be some tough discussions in the next couple of weeks on Court Avenue and the direction we will take it together.

So much has changed regarding downtown development over the past year. We have so much momentum going for us...we don't want to slow that down. We also don't want to settle for something DSM residents will not be happy with over the long run. Once you build it...you can't go back.

Many on the council believe we have hit our stride in downtown DSM and we should weather the storm and see if there other proposals on the table. I am confident that outside of the Hubbell/Bookey plan there are many other developers who would now jump at the chance to develop, in my opinion, the most valuable piece of real estate in downtown Des Moines.

Again, thank you for writing and for being involved in the community and the direction we are taking it. It will only work if everyone is invested in the effort.

Warm Regards,
Michael Kiernan

________________________________

From: Josh Garrett
Sent: Tue 6/28/2005 1:26 PM
To: Kiernan, Michael J.
Subject: Hubbell Court Avenue Housing

Councilman Kiernan,

I just wanted to tell you about the dissapointment I have with the scaled back proposal on the redevelopment of Court Avenue. I attended one of the public forums back in 1998 (when we voiced our opinions on the competing proposed Court Avenue Station projects). The latest reincarnation of the Court Avenue redevelopment is simply unacceptable. It will definately not bring the life we want to see on Court Avenue for our "young" people. From the Register's article, it appears its geared towards a family lifestyle, which is something that would be directly opposite of what the purpose of the redevelopment of this area was intended to be. Honestly, these townhomes should be jump starting Riverpoint West (I believe Hubbell is still involved in that project) into creation. When I spoke at that meeting, I was 20...and now I'm getting closer to 30. With everything that is happening in Downtown, this area could see something much more exciting. When the corner of Ingersoll and MLK is landing a $40 million dollar project full of housing, there is no reason Court Avenue couldn't see something more like it in density. The time for handouts to build housing Downtown is starting to be hogwash when many other developers are doing it without huge amounts of cash from the city. This proposal has been one blow after another, lets officially kill it and start over. Des Moines is not the same place it was 10, 5, or a even a year ago. Des Moines is a standout city (especially for its size) that is always aiming to think big. This project is not.

I run (along with Ryan Moffitt) a website that is devoted to development in the Des Moines area, absolutedsm.com. On our forums, you will find people who care about the direction the city is going. Most of us are excited with the progress that has occured in the city over the last few years. Click here and you can read their comments in the forums about this project:

http://www.absolutedsm.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108

Thank you,

Josh Garrett

by **dmluvr** on Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:39 am

No way, this got scaled back again? This is a joke right?? :lol:

Really though, I'm glad this happened, this guys needed the boot for a long time anyways. this council could easily get some professionals on this who will do it right. You don't think with Sherman's developments right next door to court ave that they wouldn't love to do something with court ave?? I bet they would.

Scrap this thing completley and get some real players on here.
It's just time that local developers stick with the corn fields and let the big dogs handle downtown. Period.

by **dogbo** on Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:09 am

I'm getting tired of being disappointed with news regarding Court Ave. I can't believe the city can't get developers to step up who have both the vision and the money to do this right! I had big hopes for Hubbell/Bookey, but it seems they just keep letting "us" down.

by **NOG** on Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:12 pm

Like I said in my previous post, what upsets me the most is that they presented a project they could never do. Because of this, two other projects which were probably more feasible and now appear to be more robust than the skeleton of a project were are now left with, were shot down.

by **iadm** on Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:09 pm

So what should /shouldn'ty be put on this land?

all housing?

require commercial at least on ground floor level?

allow condos or townhouses?

be at least 3 floors high?

require underground parking (at $18K/space, probably paid for by the city)?

by **Ingersoll1978** on Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:03 pm

Where we bought our condo on Grand Ave., one space is included with the unit. An additional space is $15,000. I don't think that is unreasonable.

by **DMRyan** on Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:05 am

Commercial on the ground floor is a must have if we're to ever see Court Avenue take off like we want it to.

Dense housing is nice, but as it was mentioned previously, brownstones and rowhomes are for Riverpoint West, not Court Avenue. As far as parking, there should be some underground, but what about adding onto the new Science Center ramp? I know that it is able to take on at least one additional floor in the future, can it handle more levels to accomdate new residents on any Court Avenue developments and the Rumely Building conversion?

I brought this up a long time ago, but we need to really address what we want Court Avenue to become. Do we want it to be an interesting urban neighborhood with some nightlife options that urban neighborhoods have, or do we want it to be our defined "entertainment district." Housing and clubs don't exactly mix the best, even if people that choose to live there know what they're getting into. I personally think we need a fresh idea for our touristy entertainment district, and it lies just south of the Iowa Events Center. Look at what's in this area now. Scattered surface parking, a few urban renewal office buildings that are probably past their prime use. Imagine an entertainment district (even if it would be entirely fabricated) to tie the arena and the riverfront into downtown. That's just my idea for what I think would be best for downtown's new mega entertainment district, and we have great examples in Columbus, Ohio, and soon to be KC for us to follow.

Court Avenue Development Efforts

Who is online