Aviva Picks WDM as New Home

[Better Life dude]

The map overlya puts it all into a nice perspective. Walking from Aviva to Jordan Creek mall is like walking from Ingersoll Square to Methodist Hospital - and back - for your lunch hour. I don't think so!

[Ingersoll1978]

I don't think you'll see people walking either. I've NEVER seen someone walking from Wells Fargo over there. The massive parking lots, 6 lanes + turning lanes to cross and winding paths on these campuses make it very UNFRIENDLY to pedestrians.

About Aviva---I'm over them moving from Downtown. As I said before, they could have easily have relocated to Boston or another major metropolitan area. Until Iowa or our metro gets serious about urban sprawl, these types of relocations will happen. I just hope to see one go from out there to DOWNTOWN eventually...especially with how "cool" Downtown is becoming.

[QuadCityImages]

Even if the distance is similar, there's typically a mental and visual barrier to walking in suburban developments. The idea of walking 400 feet through a parking lot is actually worse than walking 600 feet along street level retail. Then, as Ingersoll said, you hit the 6-lane crossing attempt. It ends up looking like you're not even supposed to walk. In the QC area, quite a few of our suburban retail areas weren't even built with sidewalks!

[dogbo]

About Aviva---I'm over them moving from Downtown. As I said before, they could have easily have relocated to Boston or another major metropolitan area.

With all due respect Ingersoll, I don't recall hearing any serious or real possibilities of relocation outside of the DSM metro for Aviva when they were considering a new headquarters. It might make us feel better to think the suburban location was our only option to keep them in the metro, but I don't believe that is the case here. That said, the same can't be said for Wells Fargo Mortgage. They were seriously considering sites outside of Des Moines and outside of Iowa before they settled on the W DSM location. I think that, and the fact they announced the new building for Wells Fargo Financial downtown at the same time, helped make that location a bit more palatable at the time (although far from ideal).

Bottom-line: Aviva continues to be an example of a lost opportunity for a better overall metro. I, for one, refuse to sweep this under the rug because it in part represents exactly the problem I was mentioning before. That is, we talk about conserving resources, conserving energy, our need to stop relying on foreign oil, how much we hate when gas prices rise, etc. etc. etc...and then we promote (through city and state incentives) something like this project that flies in the face of helping resolve any of these issues. To me this is the ultimate level of hypocrisy.

[dogbo]

I know I've said this before, but I've seen people leave Jimmy John's sandwich shop in West Glen, get in their car, and drive to Target which is practically a stone's throw away. People will not walk. And, this idea that if we build everything closer together, people will stop driving etc etc is just ignoring reality. Now, some may want to change that reality, but the first step is to admit that the reality exists. West Glen is THE perfect example of an attempt to enforce pedestrianism by builders. The only time people are seen out walking is when they are getting into and out of their cars. (I don't speak for downtown, because I don't live or work there and haven't been there in over a year, I used the West Glen example because this is the development OUTSIDE downtown thread). We are not addicted to oil, we are addicted to cars. When the people see and want a change, they will let us all know. Enjoy the discussion.

You make a some good observations kissjrj but at the end of the day, American consumers only love their cars so much because our tax dollars have been used over the years to fund the construction of our cities and transportation systems in a way that promoted (not discouraged) car use. It really isn't that much different than pre-welfare reform that was passed in the early nineties. By nature, people will gravitate towards the path of least resistance. Before welfare reform, we had families that continued indefinitely to use gov't programs such as this. Once restrictions were put into place so that there was a deadline for assistance, people found jobs to support their families (instead of relying on the gov't).

Using your logic, we should just resign ourselves to the fact that people are addicted to gov't assistance and thus not do anything to try and change or discourage this behavior.

[4th&Court]

If you're going to be working at Aviva in West Des Moines, you're going to drive your car to and from work and eat either at your cubicle or the company cafeteria or at the company provided picnic table outside your office building. That's the bottom line.

In theory, yes. But for all practical purposes, people like to get out of the office periodically for lunch, and in order to do that, these employees will need to jump in their cars and drive somewhere.

Anyway, to continue on. We keep hearing about all these incentives/mandates to make cars more energy efficient or giving taxes breaks for hybrids, etc....well here's a crazy idea -- how about we quit burying our heads in the sand and start using common sense to build our cities so people don't have to rely on cars for every stinking thing they do in their lives?!?!?!

I know this isn't practical (or is it?), but think about this. If all these sporadic office parks spread throughout the metro were consolidated downtown, we could probably start having high speed rail service to get people to and from work...and think about the amenities that we'd have (not to mention the incredible skyline) if we had that type of concentration of workers currently in downtown DSM? If we all had similar transportation needs to get and from work, the options would naturally become available and be very attractive. However, we don't because we're forced to work in all corners of the metro. The Aviva project only exasperates this problem.

I fully agree that these places are totally impractical choices for lunch for the Wells Fargo and Aviva employees. Indeed, most of our large, cubicle-farm employers around here provide 45 minute lunches at best. It probably averages 8-10 minutes from cubicle to car and vice versa. Much like the downtown restaurants, Jordan Creek and the surrounding area are totally overwhelmed and underserved during the lunch hour. It can be a formidable task to get lunch in the Kaleidescope at certain times, and likewise with the JC food court. Forget about any sit-down options. At best, you're going to spring to your car, drive to the food court, get something to go, and try to get away with eating at your desk (usually disallowed in the cubicle farms).

One plus I can give the Jordan Creek area is that there is a reason for the employees to be around after 5 pm. Downtown continues to have very little to offer in the evenings other than restaurants. We give a little too much credit to the employers when we talk about downtown workers patronizing the businesses down here. Almost everything opens when they get here and closes when they leave. With two 10 minute breaks and 45 minute lunch, I doubt a whole lot of "shopping" is really going on.

[Young DSM Social Club]

Let's be honest ... there are a lot of people who have no interest in being downtown and would select Jordan Creek every time over downtown or any place in "old Des Moines".

My company is in WDSM (old WDSM). It was downtown years ago. If we took a vote on where to relocate today, I bet 30% would say close to current location in WDSM or more north, 40% would say Jordan Creek, 10% would say Ankeny, and 10% would say downtown ...

[RenovateDSM]

My company is in WDSM (old WDSM). It was downtown years ago. If we took a vote on where to relocate today, I bet 30% would say close to current location in WDSM or more north, 40% would say Jordan Creek, 10% would say Ankeny, and 10% would say downtown ...

I'm curious about the reasoning behind those estimated percentages. If you were to hold a focus group with that question instead of a vote, what you you think each of the representatives would say to convince the others?

I have my guesses, but I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

[4th&Court]

My company is in WDSM (old WDSM). It was downtown years ago. If we took a vote on where to relocate today, I bet 30% would say close to current location in WDSM or more north, 40% would say Jordan Creek, 10% would say Ankeny, and 10% would say downtown ...

I'm curious about the reasoning behind those estimated percentages. If you were to hold a focus group with that question instead of a vote, what you you think each of the representatives would say to convince the others?

I have my guesses, but I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

My guess would be what I spoke of above. Services. After 5 pm, downtown really doesn't have any. Many people like to get things done on the way home from work. Working in JC, they can get almost anything they need on their way out. I think most workers would feel like the Jordan Creek area fits into their busy lifestyle, and downtown just doesn't.

[Keepgrowingdsm]

Amazing. . .I make a statement about the many benefits for all of Des Moines this project will create and it turns into a debate. What if they would have pulled out and built this campus let's say on the East Coast? This came very close to happening. Aviva didn't want to be downtown, they wanted to be in the suburbs. Do we tell them tough? I hope you agree the answer is no. Economic development projects have many benefits, even if they don't build a tall building. I just don't understand how this entire project can be viewed as "Negative."

[Young DSM Social Club]

First --- I would have to disagree that it is easier to get services in Jordan Creek. They don't even have a Walgreens, do they? Close to downtown we have Gateway Market, dry cleaners, pharmacies, etc., etc. ... I definitely think downtown and nearby locales currently have an edge on running errands. Maybe I am missing something that Jordan Creek has to offer ... ? Most of my after work errands don't involve shopping for clothes.

Second --- in response to my workplace. Hardly anybody lives in Des Moines nor have they ever worked downtown. Downtown is confusing and complicated. They like parking next to their office. Many people do have to travel a lot in my job, so I do agree that having close parking is a necessity with this job (probably 1/3 don't sit in a cubicle all day), and it would be if we were downtown. We also have a lot of Ankeny people and I have always thought (as a whole -- not all!) that Ankeny people seem very disconnected from Des Moines proper and are way more comfortable working in a similar looking suburb than a more urban environment.

Des Moines seems to attract 1) people that grew up in DSM proper and want to remain there due to loyalty 2) east coast people who realized that DSM property isn't "scary" in comparison to bigger east coast cities and has a lot more culture than the suburbs 3) artists and more "alternative" types 4) people who like history, the character and superior quality of old buildings, and a stronger sense of community.

Suburbs (at least to me) tend to attract 1) small town people 2) big city people who have no clue what Des Moines is and are geared toward their $600,000 with their realtor who make promises of better schools (while pocketing much higher commissions). 3) People who just want something "new" over "old"

[4th&Court]

First --- I would have to disagree that it is easier to get services in Jordan Creek. They don't even have a Walgreens, do they? Close to downtown we have Gateway Market, dry cleaners, pharmacies, etc., etc. ... I definitely think downtown and nearby locales currently have an edge on running errands. Maybe I am missing something that Jordan Creek has to offer ... ? Most of my after work errands don't involve shopping for clothes.

There is a Walgreens on Mills Civic. Also, the downtown Walgreens is as useless as most other downtown businesses after 6 pm--dark as night.

Downtown has Gateway, but this is a gourmet grocery store. I love it, but it doesn't really suit the needs of the average consumer. I realize we can argue this point all day, but the bottom line is the average soccer mom needs, wants and uses Hy-Vee, Dahl's, Target and Wal-Mart. Not vegan and gourmet. We really don't need any anecdotal examples otherwise, as they are truly not the norm.

Jordan Creek has Costco, Wal-Mart, Target and Hy-Vee right on the way to 35, which is how most of the workers get to and from that area.

Electronics stores, pet stores, home improvement stores, dry cleaning, etc. They are all there and open until 9 or later in most cases. They are all either right in the same vicinity as the employers, or on the way out of the neighborhood. This is what I'm talking about. You have to go quite far outside of downtown Des Moines to get any of these services after banker's hours, and even then, they are not along or near the easy routes out of downtown like 235. They are way up Ingersoll or clear down 14th St.

I wish employers would locate downtown, believe me. But I don't think downtown entrepreneurs are savvy enough to see the writing on the wall....yet.

[dogbo]

Amazing. . .I make a statement about the many benefits for all of Des Moines this project will create and it turns into a debate. What if they would have pulled out and built this campus let's say on the East Coast? This came very close to happening. Aviva didn't want to be downtown, they wanted to be in the suburbs. Do we tell them tough? I hope you agree the answer is no. Economic development projects have many benefits, even if they don't build a tall building. I just don't understand how this entire project c an be viewed as "Negative."

This is the first I've heard that this came "very close" to relocating to the east coast. Do you have some inside information that never made it to the local media? If so, pls share. Also, you say you don't understand how this project could be viewed as "negative". Well...read the comments on the thread and offer some counterpoints to the concerns then. This is a forum, so discussions is encouraged . IMO, the concerns against the suburban location are pretty well spelled out here. Pls offer a counter opinion if you have one.

[hawk61401]

Does Iowa Health own some or all of those lots directly north of Grand, across from the Arlington Hallet and the sculpture garden?

The city needs to keep the pot stirred and the Gateway moving. One of Aviva's reasons for not staying downtown was supposedly the hassle of buying and redeveloping downtown land. Aviva is a lost cause. Looks to me like the city should learn from it. The city could invest in those lots and give them as incentives to the best developer.

The north side of the Gateway needs a wall of new construction from the new Wellmark site all the way down to Meredith.

[4th&Court]

[quote="hawk61401"]Does Iowa Health own some or all of those lots directly north of Grand, across from the Arlington Hallet and the sculpture garden?
quote]

Not sure if they own them, but I know some of those lots have permit parking for IHS employees.

[Mastermind]

Here is a snippet from a article posted today on the Register's website. Has anyone seen this "second" tower rendering?

Godlasky was just as quiet about what all these initiatives might mean to Des Moines. Or West Des Moines, where this spring it began building a headquarters valued at between $135 million and $150 million.

The company has designed its headquarters - now under construction - to accommodate 1,500 people. That's two-thirds more than the approximate 900 who work for it now in several downtown buildings.

Burrow into the blueprints of its headquarters and you'll see drawings for a second tower that could house yet another 1,500.

Without some genuine optimism about the future, Godlasky said, "we wouldn't have gone to the work of designing this."

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080629/BUSINESS/806290317/1029/BUSINESS

[DMRyan]

Nice. If you read the entire article about Aviva's operations, it seems like this corporate job growth will be more a long, drawn out process as the company gets a bigger foothold in North America. Having a company start with a couple hundred people just a few short years ago and possibly expanding to have 3,000 employees locally would be a remarkable feat. I don't think you can underestimate what this company's commitment to the local economy means for the strengh of the Des Moines financial business sector.

[Keepgrowingdsm]

2 more stories are being added as we speak. These are floors 7 and 8. Next, a full penthouse will top out the building allowing for 9 stories total above lowest grade. It is really sticking up on the Western edge of town now!

[DMRyan]

New photos as of today of the progress. The building is indeed topped out and it appears that exterior cladding will begin soon if it hasn't already.

[Des Moineser]

I'm surprised by how few photos people have taken of this. Topped out and looking nice, too bad it isn't narrower, taller, and downtown.

[Mastermind]

7 stories in WDM is alot, considering Wellmark is only 5 and downtown.

[rasmeth]

Topped out and looking nice, too bad it isn't narrower, taller, and downtown.

Or if not Downtown, at least on a different side of the metro to balance growth.

[Mastermind]

Looks like Aviva may be looking to grow through acquisition

Aviva considers acquisition opportunities

By Karen Mracek • kmracek@dmreg.com • May 20, 2009

The chief executive officer of insurer Aviva PLC, whose U.S. operations are based in Des Moines, told Dow Jones he “expects acquisition opportunities to start arising within the next six months as asset valuations become clearer.”

In an interview with Dow Jones Newswires, Andrew Moss said the company will continue conserving cash to protect itself from continued financial market volatility, but will be looking at acquisition opportunities “as we go through the next six months.”

The last major acquisition for the company came in 2006, when Aviva purchased AmerUS for $3.1 billion. When Aviva purchased Des Moines-based AmerUs, it predicted business would double by 2011. The company passed that goal in the fourth quarter of 2008.

“Equally, its always part of our job to scan the horizon for opportunities and my expectation is that in the course of next year we will see some opportunities. That’s in the course of this year into next year,” Moss told Dow Jones.

[hawk61401]

I would love it if this building was directly west of Wellmark's downtown.

[mirage1]

Wellmark's building would look really nice next to the Aviva building in West Des Moines.

(do we have to continue to have these "turf wars" posts?...can't we all be happy both of these companies chose the metro area for significant investment?)

[hawk61401]

Wellmark's building would look really nice next to the Aviva building in West Des Moines.

(do we have to continue to have these "turf wars" posts?...can't we all be happy both of these companies chose the metro area for significant investment?)

Think of it as like arranging the furniture in your home or making improvements to your house. You want your living room to be an attractive showplace that's inviting to guests and visitors. You want to make the best impression, add value to your investment, get the most bang for the buck, impress the neighbors, curb appeal, and spur even more improvements.

[Ingersoll1978]

Some new photos of Aviva's new building...windows are going in. Check them all out in the Aviva Project Page.

[hawk61401]

thanks, Ingersoll, those are great pics of a beautiful building. The Des Moines metro is very fortunate to have companies like Aviva and many others that are progressive, growing, and welcoming to everyone.

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/busines ... usion2008/

[Des Moineser]

Got a picture of the construction tonight (from 1,900 feet above ground), things are moving along nicely.

[DMRyan]

Photos of this project from every angle. Interesting that the side that faces the street looks pretty plain, but the more exciting choice of building materials and architecture faces west, away from Jordan Creek Parkway.