Old Central Fire Station- Des Moines Social Club

[DMRyan]

The Des Moines Social Club will be pitching a proposal to the City to take over the old central fire station once they move into their new digs.

This would be a pretty incredible location for them if this all pans out, and just the tenant the building needs to remain in active use. Of course, this is a pretty large building that they may need to tackle in phases, but they're looking at a restaurant, bar, performing arts space, art galleries, etc. that their old Western Gateway location had.

[speeder]

Such a great building, glad to hear there is interest in it from The Des Moines Social Club.

[Young DSM Social Club]

Cool idea. What an old pic!!! Look at the building behind it ...

[dogbo]

I love the idea! Hope they can come up with the funds to due this building justice. I'm wondering if they are also considering the Lovejoy Building as well (just down the street to the west).

[wmjindsm]

From their Facebook page, on June 14th The Des Moines Social Club will be submitting a letter of intent to the Mayor and City Council to purchase the Firehouse on the corner of 9th and Mulberry streets. They are asking people to sign a petition in favor of the purchase of the firehouse.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/996/713/ ... firehouse/

https://www.facebook.com/desmoinessocialclub

[dogbo]

Might have to retitle the thread. West End Salvage is interested too.

Two groups want to buy old Des Moines firehouse

The Des Moines Social Club and West End Salvage both make bids

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/articl ... -firehouse

[dogbo]

Hard not to get more excited about the Social Club offer (vs West End's)...especially given that Ochestrate (sp?) will put in a bar/restaurant as part of the plans....

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/articl ... -firehouse

[hawk61401]

ok, that does it. I'm moving into the old fire station.

On the second floor are a dormitory, dining room, kitchen, rooms for recreation and instruction, and a handball court.

I handball

the old Fire Station: http://tinyurl.com/6urxy95

photo attributed to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Heart ... C3%B3n.svg

[DMRyan]

Other than the fact that the Social Club will be largely tax-exempt and I question the ability to raise enough funds to adequately convert the building to meet all of the codes, I can't think of another down side to their proposal. They've really done their homework on this proposal and lined up the right people to get the job done it seems.

The DMSC's fundraising is more grass-roots, but they may just have enough momentum to pull of a successful phase I renovation of the building in pretty short order. I know I would give a little to support this cause.

[casbern]

So, just out of curiosity, why couldn't WES have a space within the DSMSC? They could even provide furniture and such to the nonprofit to showcase how great their goods are.

PROBLEM SOLVED.

[SpinningBird]

Hard not to get more excited about the Social Club offer (vs West End's)...especially given that Ochestrate (sp?) will put in a bar/restaurant as part of the plans....

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/articl ... -firehouse

Would at least the restaurant part be taxable property then? Otherwise the City should favor the taxpaying entity (West End Salvage).

[casbern]

Hard not to get more excited about the Social Club offer (vs West End's)...especially given that Ochestrate (sp?) will put in a bar/restaurant as part of the plans....

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/articl ... -firehouse

Would at least the restaurant part be taxable property then? Otherwise the City should favor the taxpaying entity (West End Salvage).

Uhh, hello, PILOT.

Geesh.

[DMRyan]

The Register is reporting that the City Manager will recommend the sale of this building to the Des Moines Social Club.

If they are successful in getting the building renovated and put back into use, perhaps this will be just the spark needed to fill the rest of the retail space in the Davis Brown Tower, and maybe even get a new housing proposal or two going on 11th Street, near the Mulberry Lofts. Those parking lots and crappy one story buildings will be ripe for redevelopment this decade.

[SpinningBird]

Hard not to get more excited about the Social Club offer (vs West End's)...especially given that Ochestrate (sp?) will put in a bar/restaurant as part of the plans....

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/articl ... -firehouse

Would at least the restaurant part be taxable property then? Otherwise the City should favor the taxpaying entity (West End Salvage).

Uhh, hello, PILOT.

Geesh.

A PILOT just goes to the City, not the schools and county like regular taxes. (Uhh, hello...geesh?)

Do the math. PILOT that's being offered ($10,000) makes the City whole ($600,000 *16/1000) but is not anywhere near what overall assessed taxes would otherwise be collected -- when you inlcude the school district levy, etc. Accepting PILOT by DM is done at the expense of the county, schools, etc. getting their share of regular taxes.

[casbern]

Would at least the restaurant part be taxable property then? Otherwise the City should favor the taxpaying entity (West End Salvage).

Uhh, hello, PILOT.

Geesh.

A PILOT just goes to the City, not the schools and county like regular taxes. (Uhh, hello...geesh?)

Do the math. PILOT that's being offered ($10,000) makes the City whole ($600,000 *16/1000) but is not anywhere near what overall assessed taxes would otherwise be collected -- when you inlcude the school district levy, etc. Accepting PILOT by DM is done at the expense of the county, schools, etc. getting their share of regular taxes.

Please read your statements before replying. Thanks.

You made no mention of the county, schools, etc.. only the city.

[hawk61401]

About 3 years ago, I had the pleasure of having a 30 second chat with Michael Kaiser when he was visiting Des Moines. He's the President of the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts. He said in a later interview that arts leaders in Des Moines were no different in their sophistication or their creativity than their counterparts in New York or San Francisco.

Imagine a time not too long ago when Des Moines didn't have the Des Moines Arts Festival or the Des Moines Social Club. One should then realize how valuable the arts are to Des Moines. If the Des Moines Social Club moves into the old fire station, it will be one heck of an excellent investment for Des Moines and it's taxpayers.

[SpinningBird]

Please read your statements before replying. Thanks.

You made no mention of the county, schools, etc.. only the city.

The city gets to make the choice, the school district and county get to pay the price.

Congrats to the Social Club. Anxious to see whether they can rally the funding.

[lyddonc]

The city gets to make the choice, the school district and county get to pay the price.

Congrats to the Social Club. Anxious to see whether they can rally the funding.[/quote]


Well, considering I currently am paying taxes to support a school district in which I have 0 kids, pay to supply parks to other people's kids while being assessed a fee to use the one park in town that my "child" can use, as well as provide fire,police,and roads to churches and other "charities" to which I ascribe zero belief and/or confidence, but do support this, I figure it should be about even then. Somehow, I sincerely doubt the taxes collected or not collected on this project will amount to much. Just saying, that the "tax" issue is a two way street. Personally, this gem of a structure deserves to be more then just a warehouse awaiting demolition.

[Ingersoll1978]

Keep in mind that this property hasn't paid taxes since it was built.

[hawk61401]

Back in 2003, Knapp Properties owned 239 acres near Des Moines International Airport. The land was subdivided for commercial development and for sale at a total price of $7 million. But, because Knapp allowed the farmers to plant corn on it, the company paid $14,345 in property taxes in 2003 instead of $320,514. That's over $300,000 that Knapp didn't have to pay in taxes.

In the entire Polk County, about 10% of those claiming farmland tax breaks are actually identified on the tax rolls as developers.

Even if the old fire station was a property tax generating property, the taxes collected would be pennies compared to the millions that Des Moines and Polk County lose to "fake farmers".

I remember one particular Des Moines developer I talked to who had the gall to talk about Des Moines welfare queens. I said, "Oh?, and you're not?"

[Braniff]

A letter in today's Des Moines Register noted that there might have been a conflict of interest in transferring the old central fire station to the Des Moines Social Club--the ties of council members Christine Hensley and Mayor Cownie. With that in mind, along with the recent questions surrounding the conflict of interest in the Sebring-
Rasmussen case, did anyone have any doubts about allowing the Des Moines Council to favor transferring the old fire station to the Des Moines Social Club?

That said, I wonder if the Des Moines Register building, which is apparently about to be vacated might be a worthy alternative, at least for some of the Des Moines Social Club's activities. I realize there are issues with asbestos abatement, etc. but there should be plenty of room for growth (esp. if the tower is kept. Moreover, the synergy with the adjoining Marriott Hotel could be huge.

What are your thoughts?

[Mastermind]

A letter in today's Des Moines Register noted that there might have been a conflict of interest in transferring the old central fire station to the Des Moines Social Club--the ties of council members Christine Hensley and Mayor Cownie. With that in mind, along with the recent questions surrounding the conflict of interest in the Sebring-
Rasmussen case, did anyone have any doubts about allowing the Des Moines Council to favor transferring the old fire station to the Des Moines Social Club?

That said, I wonder if the Des Moines Register building, which is apparently about to be vacated might be a worthy alternative, at least for some of the Des Moines Social Club's activities. I realize there are issues with asbestos abatement, etc. but there should be plenty of room for growth (esp. if the tower is kept. Moreover, the synergy with the adjoining Marriott Hotel could be huge.

What are your thoughts?

Not a fan of that idea.

[hawk61401]

A letter in today's Des Moines Register noted that there might have been a conflict of interest in transferring the old central fire station to the Des Moines Social Club--the ties of council members Christine Hensley and Mayor Cownie. With that in mind, along with the recent questions surrounding the conflict of interest in the Sebring-
Rasmussen case, did anyone have any doubts about allowing the Des Moines Council to favor transferring the old fire station to the Des Moines Social Club?

That said, I wonder if the Des Moines Register building, which is apparently about to be vacated might be a worthy alternative, at least for some of the Des Moines Social Club's activities. I realize there are issues with asbestos abatement, etc. but there should be plenty of room for growth (esp. if the tower is kept. Moreover, the synergy with the adjoining Marriott Hotel could be huge.

What are your thoughts?

Not a fan of that idea.

not a fan either. I think the old fire station is the perfect fit for the DMSC.

[dogbo]

A letter in today's Des Moines Register noted that there might have been a conflict of interest in transferring the old central fire station to the Des Moines Social Club--the ties of council members Christine Hensley and Mayor Cownie. With that in mind, along with the recent questions surrounding the conflict of interest in the Sebring-
Rasmussen case, did anyone have any doubts about allowing the Des Moines Council to favor transferring the old fire station to the Des Moines Social Club?

That said, I wonder if the Des Moines Register building, which is apparently about to be vacated might be a worthy alternative, at least for some of the Des Moines Social Club's activities. I realize there are issues with asbestos abatement, etc. but there should be plenty of room for growth (esp. if the tower is kept. Moreover, the synergy with the adjoining Marriott Hotel could be huge.

What are your thoughts?

That was one person's opinion. No one stands to profit from this transaction. I don't agree this is a conflict-of-interest in the true sense most of us think. That was a poor letter to the editor IMO.

[wildbill]

A letter in today's Des Moines Register noted that there might have been a conflict of interest in transferring the old central fire station to the Des Moines Social Club--the ties of council members Christine Hensley and Mayor Cownie. With that in mind, along with the recent questions surrounding the conflict of interest in the Sebring-
Rasmussen case, did anyone have any doubts about allowing the Des Moines Council to favor transferring the old fire station to the Des Moines Social Club?

That said, I wonder if the Des Moines Register building, which is apparently about to be vacated might be a worthy alternative, at least for some of the Des Moines Social Club's activities. I realize there are issues with asbestos abatement, etc. but there should be plenty of room for growth (esp. if the tower is kept. Moreover, the synergy with the adjoining Marriott Hotel could be huge.

What are your thoughts?

Fourteen floors of the DMSC sounds like overkill to me.

[dogbo]

^^I didn't see any suggestion it would take over the entire building.

[SpinningBird]

The city gets to make the choice, the school district and county get to pay the price.

Congrats to the Social Club. Anxious to see whether they can rally the funding.

Well, considering I currently am paying taxes to support a school district in which I have 0 kids, pay to supply parks to other people's kids while being assessed a fee to use the one park in town that my "child" can use, as well as provide fire,police,and roads to churches and other "charities" to which I ascribe zero belief and/or confidence, but do support this, I figure it should be about even then. Somehow, I sincerely doubt the taxes collected or not collected on this project will amount to much. Just saying, that the "tax" issue is a two way street. Personally, this gem of a structure deserves to be more then just a warehouse awaiting demolition.[/quote]

Full boat Commercial taxes would have been > $20,000 per year. With the Social Club, they're paying the City their $10,000 as a PILOT but the City and County are losing their shares. I agree this is "not much" until you add it up over 20, 30, 40 years. Hopefully the Social Club can make some of that up by establishing retail presence.

I have no idea what to say about your other rant. Did you attend public schools? Have you ever needed to use a hospital?

[lyddonc]

The city gets to make the choice, the school district and county get to pay the price.

Congrats to the Social Club. Anxious to see whether they can rally the funding.

Well, considering I currently am paying taxes to support a school district in which I have 0 kids, pay to supply parks to other people's kids while being assessed a fee to use the one park in town that my "child" can use, as well as provide fire,police,and roads to churches and other "charities" to which I ascribe zero belief and/or confidence, but do support this, I figure it should be about even then. Somehow, I sincerely doubt the taxes collected or not collected on this project will amount to much. Just saying, that the "tax" issue is a two way street. Personally, this gem of a structure deserves to be more then just a warehouse awaiting demolition.

Full boat Commercial taxes would have been > $20,000 per year. With the Social Club, they're paying the City their $10,000 as a PILOT but the City and County are losing their shares. I agree this is "not much" until you add it up over 20, 30, 40 years. Hopefully the Social Club can make some of that up by establishing retail presence.

I have no idea what to say about your other rant. Did you attend public schools? Have you ever needed to use a hospital?[/quote]

Yes, I attended public school, and I have a niece and a nephew in school, so don't mind paying school taxes, the point I was making is that taxes aren't something you are going to see a "return" on, and for the same reason, sometimes we are "asked" to pay for things that we neither use, support, or believe in, but we do it because its a sum effort. This building makes the city nicer in my opinion, and this organization does the same, or is trying to. Better then I can say for some of the other properties that receive tax exempt status. Anyway, back to being a apathetic observer.

[wildbill]

^^I didn't see any suggestion it would take over the entire building.

I'm not sure what you read?

I wonder if the Des Moines Register building, which is apparently about to be vacated, might be a worthy alternative, at least for some of the Des Moines Social Club's activities.

[Emil]

Back in 2003, Knapp Properties owned 239 acres near Des Moines International Airport. The land was subdivided for commercial development and for sale at a total price of $7 million. But, because Knapp allowed the farmers to plant corn on it, the company paid $14,345 in property taxes in 2003 instead of $320,514. That's over $300,000 that Knapp didn't have to pay in taxes.

In the entire Polk County, about 10% of those claiming farmland tax breaks are actually identified on the tax rolls as developers.

Even if the old fire station was a property tax generating property, the taxes collected would be pennies compared to the millions that Des Moines and Polk County lose to "fake farmers".

I remember one particular Des Moines developer I talked to who had the gall to talk about Des Moines welfare queens. I said, "Oh?, and you're not?"

that's not really relative to the point. property tax reform is clearly something that needs to be taken up in the legislature (for a number of reasons), but the fact that loopholes exist elsewhere shouldn't really impact the council's decision in this case.

I agree that the fact it's never been taxable is relevant...but in the end you're missing out (potentially) on adding a fairly large taxpayer to the school and county (and not to mention the city since the PILOT isn't going to match the potential taxes. that's a pretty big gamble for an extra $300k now plus a hope that the DMSC can reach their lofty goals for this location. I think there's a lot of optimism bias in favor of the DMSC because they aspire to do something that makes DM seem more hip/cool.