Hampton Inn, South of Court

[Mastermind]

It looks like a combo Columbus/Nashville. Other than the corner, it doesn't appear to have balcony's like Nashville.

[dogbo]

^ ^that caught my eye too. Why wouldn't you want balconies at least on the side facing the river? Maybe it is just a poor copy of the rendering, but that seems to me that would be a nice feature.

Could we have 3 downtown hotels going up in 2012? This one, and the two at Riverpoint/Gray's Landing?

[DMRyan]

As opposed to three hotels that were all supposed to start this year...None of these are a go in my book until the dirt is being pushed.

The Hampton Inn riverfront proposal is still fluid and a work in progress, so there may be additional enhancements that get hashed out prior to approval.

[dogbo]

As opposed to three hotels that were all supposed to start this year...None of these are a go in my book until the dirt is being pushed.

The Hampton Inn riverfront proposal is still fluid and a work in progress, so there may be additional enhancements that get hashed out prior to approval.

I went back to the Gray's Landing/Riverpoint West thread, and those two hotel weren't scheduled to start until 2012. Am I missing others that were proposed to start in 2011?

[dogbo]

Ryan - any movement on this project as of late that you can report? I can't wait to get this hole filled along the river front.

[DMRyan]

A preliminary concept went before City Council for a presentation a few weeks ago. There are some concerns that this proposal on it's own isn't quite dense enough for one of the last key downtown riverfront redevelopment blocks, but I would wager that an economic development agreement will come into place before the year is over.

[dogbo]

^ thanks Ryan for the update!

Along with this (and I agree, the city needs to be sure they are requiring proper density for this project) , I hope that with the favorable remodel of Vets, that maybe we'll get a hotel announcement somewhere in the vicinity of the Iowa Events Center soon. Might be a pipe dream on my part, but IMO seems like a logical next step.

[DMRyan]

Big news on this project, the city will be entering into an economic development agreement with Hawkeye Hotels for not one, but TWO hotels on this site. The first hotel would still be the previously proposed Hampton Inn, but they have now come back to the table with plans for a mid-block parking garage, additional commercial retail space a new hotel of comparible size to the Hampton Inn to be built in the next few years. These additions were related to concerns about under building a crucial riverfront redevelopment site.

If everything works out, it will have been well worth the hard work that's gone into this. During this economy, it would've been easy to roll over to any developer with a proposal, but the city held firm and ended up getting a proposal out of it. Credit to the developer for sticking through this design negotiation process and stepping up to meet the building density the site is capable of.

[dogbo]

^ VERY interesting! I'm having a hard time envisioning the layout of the total project. Would the Hampton Inn and the future hotel both front the river? Can't wait to see a rendering!

[Ex-Chicago]

Big news on this project, the city will be entering into an economic development agreement with Hawkeye Hotels for not one, but TWO hotels on this site. The first hotel would still be the previously proposed Hampton Inn, but they have now come back to the table with plans for a mid-block parking garage, additional commercial retail space a new hotel of comparible size to the Hampton Inn to be built in the next few years. These additions were related to concerns about under building a crucial riverfront redevelopment site.

If everything works out, it will have been well worth the hard work that's gone into this. During this economy, it would've been easy to roll over to any developer with a proposal, but the city held firm and ended up getting a proposal out of it. Credit to the developer for sticking through this design negotiation process and stepping up to meet the building density the site is capable of.

Here's the DM Register article on this project

http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/index.php/2011/11/06/new-hotel-could-be-coming-to-downtown-des-moines/

[Mastermind]

Will street level retial be required on the parking structure?

[BenRoethig]

Considering the size of the lot, I doubt it.

[dogbo]

Will street level retial be required on the parking structure?

I guess I assumed that is where the "additional commercial space" fits in.

[dogbo]

Passed (with a few minor objections)

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/articl ... eedfetcher

[DMRyan]

I see one of the objections was about the red letters of the lit sign looking unsightly along the river. Personally, I think the lights look pretty cool reflecting off the water.

I'm even going to miss the red neon YMCA letters on the riverfront someday when it gets the wrecking ball.

[hawk61401]

The taxes from this Hampton Inn will help pay for the salaries of a few Des Moines police and firemen. If a project wasn't perfect, nothing would get built.

It slays me when people object to this building because of the red letters on the sign. Now that's!, really getting petty. In this economy, Des Moines is lucky to get this and Des Moines needs new development.

[Mastermind]

My only concern is what this will do to a future full service hotel such as a Hilton, Hyatt, Westin, etc. With potentially 4 hotels coming online within 5-7 years, i dont know if downtown will ever see these brands, unless an existing hotel is converted (Fort Des Moines)

[econboy]

My only concern is what this will do to a future full service hotel such as a Hilton, Hyatt, Westin, etc. With potentially 4 hotels coming online within 5-7 years, i dont know if downtown will ever see these brands, unless an existing hotel is converted (Fort Des Moines)

There is a ways to go before those become a reality. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. If just one of those would go in over the next few years, there would certainly be the demand for it already established. I believe there is demand there but just for 1 full service on top of this project. If you get 4 or 5 new hotels downtown at least a couple will fail b/c there isn't THAT big of a demand yet with whats already downtown and this new project.

[BenRoethig]

My only concern is what this will do to a future full service hotel such as a Hilton, Hyatt, Westin, etc. With potentially 4 hotels coming online within 5-7 years, i dont know if downtown will ever see these brands, unless an existing hotel is converted (Fort Des Moines)

FDSM will carry the Hilton badge if the banks ever give the owners the money to renovate.

[Mastermind]

My only concern is what this will do to a future full service hotel such as a Hilton, Hyatt, Westin, etc. With potentially 4 hotels coming online within 5-7 years, i dont know if downtown will ever see these brands, unless an existing hotel is converted (Fort Des Moines)

FDSM will carry the Hilton badge if the banks ever give the owners the money to renovate.

I know, but i dont see that happening anytime soon.

[dogbo]

I'm surprised no one has posted this decenting opinion by Raygun owner, Mike Draper:

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/p ... 1311090047

I respect his opinion, but have several issues with it, but short on time at the moment to comment.

[DMRyan]

I have a lot of respect for Mike Draper and what he helps bring to DSM, but it's quite clear his understanding of TIF and this whole development process is quite limited. The city is not funding the construction of the hotel, and is not trying to skirt a public process by not having the equivalent of a bond referendum, as alluded too. Some of his gripes seem to be with the idea of TIF as an economic development tool as a whole, rather than how it will be applied to this project.

By reading the pubic City Council documents:
The city is assisting the developer on the project with a one time contribution of $1.1 million dollars to help with the construction of the parking garage, which will be paid back with the increase in property tax value of the redeveloped site. It will also be paying the developer around $182,000 a year for 15 years to offset some of their increased development costs as a result of providing a higher quality design and developing an urban site, which as we all know, is a more expensive feat. The proposed assessed value of the project is much higher than this amount, so additional property tax dollars would come in, not to mention a sizable chunk of new hotel tax revenue. Granted, the additional property taxes generated will go back into the downtown TIF district. The whole of downtown is a TIF district and the increase in assessed value that's generated as a result of more development helps to fund additional downtown projects and yes, development incentives to future projects.

Criticize the brand of the hotel, how it will be built on the site, the equity of assisting this developer over existing hoteliers, or settling for the first development to walk in the door on this crucial block, but the financial risk to the taxpayers is quite low when you consider the proposed valuations of the improvements. The new hotel will generate millions more in revenue every year that if this site were left in its existing state.

[Young DSM Social Club]

I like the project and think it's a good fit for that location. I also like the design just fine. I do hope the City requires some retail in the parking lot to avoid more deadspace. With High Life and baseball stadium down the road and Court Avenue the other way, this area could easily support retail or even just small offices.

[proffdog]

hey gang, it's been a while since i've been on .... so long in fact that i still have Club SMASH. i'm actively trying to get the city to vote down the financing for this hotel project, and Philby passed on the link to this thread to me. my knowledge of TIF may be a little limited, DMRyan, but i say it so well!

and obviously, i'm not going to be able to cover in great depth, local government, planning, TIF, and future development in 900 words in the article, but i want to hit my major points:

1) however, TIF can be set up in any number of ways for a city, so it's hard to have true, across the board truisms about TIF, much like truisms for the US tax code, because both will vary widely depending on the situation.

but: "The city is not funding the construction of the hotel"? DMRyan, after listening to the city council talk about this, and explain it in the same way, i worry that they actually believe this. just because they city isn't handing them a pile of cash, doesn't mean they aren't "funding" it. for instance, if there was no $4-$5m in incentives, there'd be no hotel project. so this isn't made up money. and as you can see on a federal level, tax incentives can really change an economy, without having to directly put in money.

on that point, if i sell someone a shirt for $13, when they're normally $19. i just "lost" $6. i didn't give that person $6, but i received less than i should have for the shirt, which i will put onto my balance sheet as a $6 marketing expense.

so i'd like to see the city explain things a little more clearly. call the TIF a "marketing" or "development" expense if they want, but put it down as an expense, don't pretend its free money.

when we put down our "expenses" for discounted shirts, it really focuses us on who exactly is getting those discounted shirts. what are they doing with them. because the only reason we are discounting them, is because we think we will make more money later.

2) which brings me to my second point: how is it that the Hampton Inn folks, who are experts in the field, looked at the Des Moines market and determined that it could only handle a small-ish hotel downtown, but after talking to the city council and "not getting funding" from them, decide that Des Moines could handle 2 hotels, and three times the number of rooms as before?!

is there someone on the City Council with a PhD in Restaurant+Hotel MGMT that we don't know about?

how does the city expect banks to loan money for new hotels, when they've already tripled the size of the first hotel that looked to build in DM?

more importantly, will this cause DM to lose a truly meaningful hotel: one that is connected to the Events Center. if the city is looking to generate peripheral income from new events, etc etc, it can do that by putting a hotel up there, in a location that will help generate new events.

that is the lost "opportunity cost" of this program that i touched on in the editorial. the city is picking winners and losers with their money. because although they aren't giving people the money directly, without their indirect money, projects look a lot different.

in this case, they are picking the Hampton Inn as a winner -- an out of DM hotel chain. and picking the events center hotel -- worked on by local Jim Cownie -- as the loser.

3) which brings me to my more important point: building the city as an economic brand. the reason why my store will never use Groupon is that a stores customer network is its most powerful ally, and Groupon undercuts that network by offering a sale price to a network other than your own.

there can be arguments about getting new people in the door, but i'd rather have new people in the door who expect to pay full price.

so if we give a deal, we will give it to our network of people first, as a reward for being in our network.

the city of Des Moines needs to rank how they hand out TIF, and out of city developers should, naturally, be at the bottom of that list because they aren't "customers" of the city. local developers have already paid personal property taxes, added to the general life of the city. they are our network.

if Des Moines doesn't focus and build its network, i think it will only spin its wheels.

i'd like to see the city put an emphasis on this. to say that not all projects are equal. and this project in particular, when you look at the wide range of implications, will hurt downtown more than it will help.

[econboy]

I'm actually going to go the exact opposite way of the above post and make a statement thats going to piss alot of people off....so here goes.

Those who are stating this hotel will not be grand enough for the riverfront and downtown as a whole are missing something. In fact they are dilusional.

Asking for more than this at this time......is downright asking too much. Alot of business leaders and developers are not as enthusiastic about downtown Des Moines as alot on here might lead many to believe. Doesn't mean things aren't good or that downtown has no legs. What I simply mean is that this isn't NYC or Chicago or even Minneapolis. Asking for standards that no current prospective tenant would entertain right now is inappropriate. Of course there are those that are so passionate about downtown that they would say "this is where it's at. Period"! But reality is that on a macro level....many don't yet think that way or at least believe that passionately enough yet to do anything above a certain point.

[dogbo]

DM Register editorial board from today....

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/articl ... town-hotel

[hawk61401]

Mike Draper makes one hell of an argument too.

This will be the only hotel in all of downtown without a restaurant, bar, or ballroom space. In that sense, it will be the only hotel downtown that locals won’t use. Yet it is being built between two of Des Moines’ most successful residential projects.

Building on this site will take away the city’s only opportunity to build a true, residential neighborhood on Des Moines’ Riverwalk.

Likewise, this project will likely kill a hotel project Des Moines really needs: one just south of Hy-Vee Hall. The CVB is currently studying where to best put a hotel downtown, and many think that something connected to the Events Center will not only help draw more events to Des Moines, but will also not detract as much from other downtown hotels.

http://bit.ly/ttJsVo

[MusicMan]

in this case, they are picking the Hampton Inn as a winner -- an out of DM hotel chain. and picking the events center hotel -- worked on by local Jim Cownie -- as the loser.

To be clear - Hampton Inn is NOT building this hotel - Hawekeye Hotels is a private company based in Iowa. They are simply using the Hampton Inn banner. Similarly, the Hotel Ft Des Moines (which is locally owned) is planning to eventually remodel and open as a Hilton.
I am not familiar enough to really comment, but if I had to choose between an events center hotel and riverfront hotel, I'd agree that the events center project would be best and probably generate a greater economic return for the community.

3) which brings me to my more important point: building the city as an economic brand. the reason why my store will never use Groupon is that a stores customer network is its most powerful ally, and Groupon undercuts that network by offering a sale price to a network other than your own.

there can be arguments about getting new people in the door, but i'd rather have new people in the door who expect to pay full price.

so if we give a deal, we will give it to our network of people first, as a reward for being in our network.

While I am a huge advocate of local businesses, I'm not sure I follow this argument...

Groupon/Living Social, etc should be looked at just like your marketing expenses in the example you provided about discounting a t-shirt. As someone who consults with many local businesses, helping them to increase their sales, daily deal sites are great! They are getting new people through your front door and potentially turning them into new loyal customers. That is the essence of marketing and growth.

I do agree that preference should be given to local developers in this type of situation, but blindly saying that no national (or in this statewide) developer should receive any incentives is limiting the growth potential of our community. Smart, careful planning can occur in conjunction with out of state developers who are proposing projects that local companies are risk adverse to.

Look at Sherman and associates as an example - they've developed a number of downtown parcels that are great projects! And what about the Younkers building... should we just let it sit vacant indefinitely? I'm glad that a developer (out of state) has finally put forth a proposal.

As an example of what can go wrong when you throw money at a local project that doesn't have a solid plan or the right investors, look no further than the vacant Top Foods store on University.

the city of Des Moines needs to rank how they hand out TIF, and out of city developers should, naturally, be at the bottom of that list because they aren't "customers" of the city. local developers have already paid personal property taxes, added to the general life of the city. they are our network.

A pecking order is good, but let's not throw them off the list completely.

With all this said, I do not think that a hotel here is probably the best plan for the land.

[hawk61401]

Ok, what is Des Moines getting? No matter how you package it, design it, and try to sell it, Des Moines is getting a flop house on the riverfront. The only services it will offer is a cup o' coffee and a donut. It will be great at bar closing time for those who need a place for a one night stand. Good gawd, can't they put a restaurant in this thing?

I understand the need for economic development and tax revenues but this almost seems like desperation .. for anything. Even exciting places like Harrisburg, PA, LaCrosse WI, and St Joseph, MO, have restaurants in their riverfront hotels.

[dogbo]

There seems to be some implied concern for the fate of the Hotel Fort Des Moines in this equation. A couple comments:

If this outfit from Burlington can obtain financing, why can't the Hotel Fort DSM so they can make their MUCH needed upgrades?

Additionally other downtown hotels are moving forward with very nice upgrades....again, why is Hotel Fort DSM lagging so far behind?

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/articl ... r-caucuses

Bottom-line: I've got a record of strong support (dare I say bias) on this forum for supporting local businesses, but at some point you have to either go all-in and keep up with the national chains, or resign yourself to getting lost in the dust of progress.