Court Avenue Development Efforts

[Ingersoll1978]

Here are some plans that the same architect did for Court Avenue last year...including the Nacho Mamma's site (latin restaurant) and the Surf Shack (multi-story jazz club). Evidently, there are tons of things that could be done to these buildings.

http://www.gewattier.com/work_plan.htm

The Spaghetti Works building will look great when its done.

[dmluvr]

I think the Spaghetti Works project looks just fine --- and looks to be what it should be.

I'd dump them for everything else.

I can compromise and agree with that. I'll give it that. (the speg. bldg)

Otherwise--yeah--buh bye.

[dogbo]

I think we all need to all remain somewhat humble and keep prospective on the economic viability of rehabbing the Spaghetti Work's building. Let's step back for a moment and realize that Court Ave District has been "up and running" for well over a decade now. If developing those upper floors were a slam dunk money maker, this would have been gobbled up a long time ago by some developer (local...or otherwise). Obviously, there are some major economic hurdles that must be cleared in order to make this work otherwise this would have been done a long time ago.

Although it's been frustrating waiting for Bookey/Hubbell to come through on this project, I think we need to be a bit more patient before dismissing them and asking for others to step up to the plate. (once again....where have the "others" been for the last 10 - 12 years?)

[dmluvr]

(once again....where have the "others" been for the last 10 - 12 years?)

Sherman-Landers just 3 years ago--the plan that was actually recomended. Plus there were I believe 3 other developers that submitted plans.

Look, no question these things take time, I've said this before, but there is slow--and then there is lathargic. No question it will be a joy once there are fences around this project.
The concern is the continous lack of vision and the constant downsizing of the project by these local developers. somebody, either city government, another business or people with civic interest needs to call these people out on the carpet.

I don't buy this 'economic risk' when just half a block over--you have a project that burned to the ground, was rebuilt and is practically all sold out and/or rented, with another building about to break ground across the street.

There are no exuses for this developer any more and this boils down to poor urban business devlopment by this company. Obviously--urban planning and execution is not a speciality for these local companies. Which is fine--no harm no foul--just leave to those companies that do specialize in urban development.

[dmluvr]

Plus dogbo--let's not forget the big court ave station that was proposed back in the mid 90's.

[dogbo]

dmluvr wrote:

Sherman-Landers just 3 years ago--the plan that was actually recomended. Plus there were I believe 3 other developers that submitted plans.

I'm a big Sherman fan, but I honestly don't remember whether or not the Spaghetti Works building was included in their proposal to the city (that was eventually rejected in favor of Bookey/Hubbell's larger plan) . The guys at Sherman definitely rock, no doubt, but I don't know if they do historical restorations. Does anyone know if their original proposal included rehabbing the Spaghetti Work's Bldg?

[dmluvr]

I'm not entirely sure, but I didn't realize that sherman's plan wasn't as big--but you know what--- It would have gotten done, and guess what, we would heard an announcment by now about the next court ave project.

I really don't like to come across so negative about this--but god--the flubbs on this and the never ending drama with this project has really hampered the pontential with court. Perhaps it's a diamond that will explode once these things become reality---but who really knows right now. and that--is most unfortante.

[dogbo]

dmluvr wrote:

...but I didn't realize that sherman's plan wasn't as big

It wasn't. It was strictly housing whereas Bookey/Hubbell in addition to housing, offered both retail and entertainment options in their proposal.

[dmluvr]

right-----they offered, and we ended up getting--ugggh, the same plan--just--with not even a pretty little orange sign on the street

[dogbo]

small note in today's DSM Register regarding possible change to two-way traffic on Court Ave. (a great idea IMO!)

August 29, 2005
Two-way plan for Court Avenue

The decision to make Locust Street two-way in the East Village has been such a success that businesses in the Court Avenue area are now looking at a similar change.

Two-way streets are more retail-friendly, because they slow down traffic, one advocate of the plan told Street Talk.

There was a meeting on the proposal a couple of weeks ago at the new Science Center of Iowa. Turnout was small, but the plan is moving forward and should come before the Des Moines City Council later this year, our sources said.

There was some talk about making Second Avenue and Third Street two-way, at least in the Court Avenue area, but the consensus is that they serve as arterial streets so it is best to leave them one-way.

[downtownlofts]

This is a great idea. I think they should make 2nd and 3rd two way as well before somebody gets run over.

[dmluvr]

I would agree. Ultimatily, would love to see more ped. friendly action going on---this is a great start.

[DMRyan]

2nd and 3rd Streets at least need midblock crosswalks and some flashing signage or traffic calming to slow things down.

Anyone opposed to allowing two-way traffic on Court Avenue? Will it cause congestion, or actually be tougher for druken peds crossing the street?

[dogbo]

DMRyan asks:

Anyone opposed to allowing two-way traffic on Court Avenue? Will it cause congestion, or actually be tougher for druken peds crossing the street?

No problems with it here. For the most part all the intersections are manned by streetlights to control traffic and ped flow.

[dmluvr]

no problems here as well. I would still lke to see court ave ult. go 100% ped friendly.

[Ingersoll1978]

I'm for it as well. It'll be confusing at first, but with all the changes in the streets lately, it won't be too hard! Also, with MLK East probably getting off the ground in the next couple of years, the need for Court Avenue to be one way will be greatly diminished after its completed. Good news for Court Avenue.

[DMRyan]

I say this with some reservation, but it looks as if things will really be happening on Court Avenue folks. A true mix of downtown living arrangements for a true mix of incomes. Based on what I've heard so far about negotiations for at least one of the tenants looking to locate on the 1st floor of the new apartment building, Court Avenue will have a pretty big shot of life added to it.

This from the city's recent council agenda:

Court Avenue Partners II, L.P. plans to invest $7.6 million into constructing 52 apartments at the southeast corner of 4th Street and Court Avenue. There will be 32 one-bedroom and 20 two-bedroom units. The apartment building will have a community room, fitness center, laundry facilities and a computer center. The average rent will be $750 per month. One half of the units will be market rate, and the other half will be for low-income residents. Services will be offered to tenants to help them achieve economic self-sufficiency.

Court Avenue Ventures, L.L.P. is proposing to invest $11 million into building 40 condominiums in a five-story building ½ block south of the intersection of 4th Street and Court Avenue along the east side of 4th Street. Units will average 1,189 sf and be a combination of two-story lofts and single-level flats. The project will also include underground parking that will consist of 67 parking stalls. Condominiums will range in price between $200,000 - $250,000 per unit.

Court Avenue Partners II, L.P. and Court Avenue Ventures will make a total investment of approximately $18.6 million. Condominium ownership will contribute to a more vested downtown residential community.

Both projects meet the Enterprise Zone Program requirements of rehabilitating or constructing at least four single-family units. Construction of the Court Avenue Partners II, L.P. apartment project and the Court Avenue Ventures condominium project is anticipated to begin in October 2005 and be completed within one year. Each project will meet all applicable quality and local safety standards.

[DMRyan]

Two pieces of action to go in front of the council on Court Avenue.

#1 is the possibility of offering a grant to help to a developer that is wanting to refurbish the old Nacho Mamma's Building. Any redevelopment of this building looks to be early in the process.

Second is a request for developer interest in redeveloping the parking lot west of 4th Street and south of Court Avenue. A decision to select the development team will be in late December or early January. The city is looking for development that will fit the following uses, and will be held to relatively high design and construction standards to fit in with the existing surroundings on Court Ave.

Uses in the development can be, but are not limited to:

-Commercial/retail space that serves residents and visitors

-Offices

-Quality hotel

-Rental and owner-occupied housing above the first floor

-If parking is provided on the site, it cannot front 4th or 5th Streets or Court Ave. and preferably is underground.

-Other improvements desirable to the City including public art




As for the Hubbell-Bookey development on the surface lot next to Spaghetti Works, it sounds like everything is pressing forward.

[dogbo]

Thanks for all the info Ryan. It will be interesting to see what type of proposals the city receives for that good sized lot off of Court and 4th.

Is there anything left that could stop the Hubbell Bookey project or is finally a done deal. When will we see some work going on above Spagetti Works?

[dmluvr]

Agreed---dmryan--thahks for providing the aformentioned information.

It'll be interesting to see what happens here. Let's remain hopefull that it will be a quality project.

And not a waterdown medicore project across the street.

[dogbo]

DMRyan wrote:

#

1 is the possibility of offering a grant to help to a developer that is wanting to refurbish the old Nacho Mamma's Building. Any redevelopment of this building looks to be early in the process.

Small blurb in the Register today indicated that Legends American Grille is very likely going into this space. Hummm....doesn't exactly excite me, but I guess it's better than staying empty. I was hoping for something a little more original to the metro. This should put some major pressure on Johnny's Hall of Shame...I mean Fame to put some money back into their business to upgrade.

[mistertwister]

Legends is a homegrown business and it will put pressure on Johnny's as I would imagine they will put quite a bit of money into renovation. And you just can't beat that patio. Put some Plasma TVs out there like they did at Chammps, as well as fill the bar, and you could have the preminent sports bar in Des Moines.

[Young DSM Social Club]

Can somebody tell me more about "Legends"? I've heard of it, but where are they? Is it a Sports bar?

Downtown NEEDS a good sports bar, so if this is first rate, I am for it.

I do feel a little bit of a let-down, I admit b/c I expected something a little more exciting to go into the Nachos space. Sports bar is a great idea --- but I'd put it elsewhere.

Then again, I guess we still have a lot of vacant buildings.

On a side note --- anyone see that that the Hotel Randolph currently has 12 sex offenders -- the most in teh city ?

[dmluvr]

Legend's huh?? Well yeah--not the first thing I suppose, but I agree that it's better than a vacant space and hopefully they'll do it up nicely.
and it'll be good to put some pressure on Johnny's.

[NOG]

Can somebody tell me more about "Legends"? I've heard of it, but where are they? Is it a Sports bar?

There is one in Pleaseant Hill at Copper Creek. It has a pretty cool deck overlooking a lake, also there is one in West Des Moines way out west on Ashworth. They also have a location in Ames on the top floor of the Cyclone tower which is cool because of the location. These are just your run of the mill sports bars, nothing fancy but will still be a huge improvement over Johnny's and may be the type of bar that could bring more of the suburban crowd back downtown.

[DMRyan]

They are currently doing the archeaological dig on the 4th and Court Avenue sites. A first step to something that will hopefully break ground in Spring of 2006.

[NOG]

a little more information from Civic Skinny in City View:

"-what has yet to be made public is that although inPlay, 5C, Nelson Construction, and the Terrus Group will be the entities brought together to devise a new plan, there will be no inPlay game center on Court, nor will there be a hotel. What it will have is a Court Avenue-like, mixed use design with Terrus likely moving its office in to the as-yet-to-be-determined development on the corner of Fourth and Court. We've also been told that attorney John Shors has been lobbying to get the inPlay game center in his old brewery building near Principal Park and "they are close".

[DMRyan]

Wow, the possibility of an office building on Court Avenue in place of a theater, or interactive gaming center. Talk about excitement for our entertainment district!

What is the goal for Court Avenue anymore? Is it retail, housing and restaurants all we want, or do we want a higher risk marquee entertainment destination as well? I can understand the skepticism of putting city funds into something that could flop like a downtown theater on a high profile site, but we need to accomodate uses like this on or near this site.

With that being said, that old brewery location south of SCI is really ripe for an entertainment use.

[NOG]

With that being said, that old brewery location south of SCI is really ripe for an entertainment use

Do you know what building they are talking about? If so, could you please post a pic from the assessor site.

[Ingersoll1978]

Could this be it? It's for lease according to CB Ellis.

328 SW 5th St?